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I agree. I'd love it if they got rid of TIE/CT altogether.

I dont like Ct/TIE but what I dislike even more is having CT/TIE in a 1 game play off series.
There are plenty of reasons not to have Best of 1 Series, one reason is CT/TIE. (11991.1)


Last edited by Huzzel at 4/16/2008 10:10:59 AM

If the teams are roughly equal, I would guess that a home 10 TIE vs. away 5 normal would win 90% of the time.

If it's an away 10 TIE vs. home 5 normal, I would say the 10 would win 65%.

These are guesses, but educated guesses.

I'd say it'd be 90/75, but that's just an educated guess also.

I agree. I'd love it if they got rid of TIE/CT altogether.

I dont like Ct/TIE but what I dislike even more is having CT/TIE in a 1 game play off series.
There are plenty of reasons not to have Best of 1 Series, one reason is CT/TIE. (11991.1)

i strongly agree
the way enthusiasm as implemented in BB is good during the regular season, but in the playoffs it makes little sense

probably another thread, but i think the real problem are the "one-game-series".

Couse if i start in the first round with CT i'll have problems in the secound...
but, the teram on place four will for sure start with CT, why should this team play Normal or TIE? => the importantquestion for the first two rounds is: will the home team win with Normal against CT?

After some time with the new CT/TIE system, I think a few things are clear:

- The effect of CT/TIE is stronger than before, but the effect of higher/lower enthusiasm seems to be similar.

- The effect of CT is not modulated by the enthusiasm, thus the effect is similar no matter what enthusiasm you have, allowing the possibility of consecutive CTs, which is far from being a "crazy idea"(as for example in HT) for some teams.

- The effect of CT brings some unexpected side-effects, which make it even more drastic: the increase of team ratings and the increase of faults for the team with less attitude. The first thing is opposite to what it was announced. The second one is very unfair and out of logic from the basketball point of view. Why a team playing normal should make double amount of faults to an extra-motivated team? These side-effects can destroy all your estrategic work.

During the regular season, we can modify our plans to adjust to the new CT/TIE.
However, cup matches and 1-game-play-offs are very determined by the relative attitude of the teams, and the game looses a lot of interest because the tactical options and the enthusiasm economy become secondary items.

Here in Spain, most managers are very aggresive, and from the last 14 cup matches, 8 matches were played CT/Normal and 6 matches CT/CT. Only 3 teams survived after being CTed, all of them playing at home.
The result: two IV division teams playing the cup final, because top division teams cannot afford the enthusiasm drop to face the regular season.

Sorry for the lenght, I hope my thoughts help for the discussion.

well it seems clear we al dislike the CT/TIE thing in the 3-game series. But what is FAR worse is the CT in the 1-game series, where the weaker team will play CT just to get 1 more round and extra money, thus elimination not only his oppenent (who otherwise might have had a good shot at the championship) but also himself in the next round with lowzy enthousiasm!
This also goes for Cup games which are 1 game elimination games as well!

In fact there is no real harm with TIE. If a team chooses to risk a loss to be able to play a little better next game, that should be okay. Also in most cases the effect is about 1 level of enthousiasm gained, which is a factor, but a relatively small factor, which probably only will help you win if it would otherwise be a close game. the problem is with CT, which obviously gains you more than just 1 level of enthousiasm for that game, giving a team the opportunity to kill an obviously better team, but which also makes that your next game, you are a bird for the cat
(hope this Dutch saying is about the same in English , but prety confident it is not ;) , don't know how it is supposed to be though)
On it's own I have not so much against the fact the lesser team can win this way, but what bothers me most is the kamikaze effect of this action! I know there is no way this should not happen, since if the kamikaze effect would be gone, everyone would be CT-ing all the time. But it is not that it is logic, that I have to like it!! ;þ

And enthusiasm... simply don't see the impact. You play TIE with enthusiasm 10, against a similar team, Normal with enthusiasm 5, and you 99% of times will lose.

That's not even close to being true.

Not that I don't trust you, probably you have more information that I do, but I'd love to see statistics on that...

I guess you have some examples about matches where the other team has played TiE with enthusiasm 10 while the other one normalled with enthusiasm 5. And the team that normalled won.

I guess you have some examples about matches where the other team has played TiE with enthusiasm 10 while the other one normalled with enthusiasm 5. And the team that normalled won.

I somehow haven't seen the examples that confirm your thesis, either.

The enthusiasm system is fine. There should be a way allowing weaker teams to win with proper team management over the course of the season.

Not to mention that things have gotten a little different with the new way that enthusiasm is implemented this season.

I guess you have some examples about matches where the other team has played TiE with enthusiasm 10 while the other one normalled with enthusiasm 5. And the team that normalled won.

I somehow haven't seen the examples that confirm your thesis, either.

The enthusiasm system is fine. There should be a way allowing weaker teams to win with proper team management over the course of the season.

Not to mention that things have gotten a little different with the new way that enthusiasm is implemented this season.

maybe in the course of the regular season... but why in the play-offs?

Enthusiasm is working exactly as before the changes. What has changed is the attitude (CT/TIE). We all think these two concepts are related, so they are controlling the same thing (defense and rebound in the old GE). But with the new GE they have different effects:

- Enthusiasm is modulating your defense/rebounding team abilities.
- Attitude is giving you more chances of success in nearly all aspects of the game (shot %, asisstances, less fouls, more blocks...), which can turn a a really bad team into competitive.

At the moment, bad managers are still bad enough and they don´t take advantage of all the CTing features. i.e. One team playing against CT roughly make double faults than the other team, so a team training FT will easily get 15-20 point more, just because of playing CT.
I have played recently two TIE vs Normal matches, with the faults balance: 15/25, 11/20.
Do you think this "side-effect" of CT is fair? logic?