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I forgot to mention, i have level 4 trainer in that guy's team.
His JR was one below JS before the first pop up, two up now.
It was 8 below OD though.
I am certain it's got something to do with the elastic effect too, but that much?

p.s 20year old, 17JR...and his daughter's name is Riley by any chance?

It's got to be that much. All three of my 20 year olds have had the same pretty consistent slowdown in JR as the weeks go on, beyond what I had anticipated. Originally I had hoped to have all three at or very close to 20 by the end of this season, but now I'm not sure I can even hit 19 and one of the three may not make 18. We live and learn, or we refuse to learn and refuse to grow, I guess.

We live and learn, or we refuse to learn and refuse to grow, I guess.

True

I think we all agree we'd rather have the extra 40 skill points build!!!!

No I don't agree with this statement.
100 TSP might be extremely salary efficient, while the 140 will definitely cost you a lot more (in salary, without getting in the training discussion).

Also skills are not equal and their cap weight is not representative of their usefulness. In short this PG has 100 TSP:
http://i.imgur.com/xxrIJT4.png
and this PG has 140TSP:
http://i.imgur.com/IZTJURD.png
You can see the rating assigned by buzzer-manager yourself.

This is the cap table. As you can see your 5 to 45 numbers are not necessarily correct.
.........JS.........JR......OD .....HA......DR......PA......IS.........ID.......RB..........SB
PG....18%....28%....30%....23%....11%...50%....5%......5%....20%......3%
SG....45%....41%....40%......6%.....6%.....7%.....6%....10%....25%......3%
SF....60%....23%....30%......5%.....5%.....3%....10%....20%....35%.....3%
PF....34%......6%....5%........5%.....5%.....3%....40%....40%....40%....16%
C........8%....15%....0%........3%.....3%....3%....46%.....42%....45%....23%

Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/8/2016 10:21:43 AM

Everyone, IMO, errors in the way of punting JR and SB for sooo long.... and they are lower salary cost, free in some formulas.

Naah, that's two of the three main skills/trainings I did in Utopia. It was one of the results from the seasons long data collection. That's also the way I mentored some of the german managers when they trained their guards (JR) and bigs (SB). And I'm doing the same with the swedish NT now.

For SB I can look at it that way with ID a little bit but I error more towards SB>ID for bigs by about 3 points, and at the VERY least even, to guarantee effective defense. For PG~SF I will take SB as much as 5 points higher than ID gladly.
This is for 4 reasons-

#1 SB helps on all shots, even some that ID doesn't matter.
#2 It is help defense stat, ID isn't
#3 It is cheaper/free for those positions
#4 You can't spend so many points at big stats for guard, he will be big/have no skills of guard. So I choose IS/SB whatever ID pops by secondary/elastic and CT and pray that RB stays as low as possible

- Nestor was at the difference you emtioned SB=ID+3. For getting blocks it's great. For your overall defense it's a little bit weak. The reason is that your player will cause a missmatch because of his ID. This will attract more actions against him and thanks to his SB he will defend and block a lot. BUT... Your success rate for his defense will be lower than from a guy with SB=ID.
Simple example:
Player A: ID 13 - SB 16
Player B: ID 16 - SB 16

Player A will defend more shots and thanks to this he will end up with more blocks. Player B is the stronger guy, so the offense will try to go around. The question here is: where is the break even point? Is it better to have a guy who decreases the overall actions because of his overwhelming defense or is it better to have a "trap big". Someone who might be a weaker ID player but strikes you with his SB more often. Both things work. I know this, because I'm currently in this situation.

Let's take Nestor again.
His SB% is at 37% this season. His success rate in defense is at 73%. He had the same numbers last season too. What does this mean? Two seasons ago I came to the conclusion (from my numbers and old BB posts) that there is a border line for defense. The GE has it's "weakling rule" so that even a benchwarmer with very low skills could score some points. This border line is at 90%. 10% of the defense actions will end with a shooting foul or with a field goal. That's where my Haek lives. Since his training is finished, he is between 82% and 89%. Even during the season 32 against bot teams he finished with 87%. Nestor defends a little bit more than twice as much actions as Haek. So, Haek is Player B from my example. Nestor Player A (just other skills, but the gap suits). Who is better for my team? I understand why you say you go with SB>ID. I see the benefits from it. For me, such a guy is a trap. And this trap can hurt the others really badly. But if you take it in general, the SB=ID is stronger. More efficient. He will have a higher success rate and a lower shooting foul rate (as long as he isn't a fouler). The only thing were he will be "weaker" is the amount of blocks. But the block% will be almost the same for them.

#1 SB helps on all shots, even some that ID doesn't matter.

Yes. The more you get away from the paint, the less blocks and the impact goes down. But even at 3ptrs SB kicks in.

#2 It is help defense stat, ID isn't

Jop.

Are you going to be promoting to a top league any time soon?

Not with the first team. But the second team plays its first season in Div. 2 and the target is to promote to Div. 1. I'm almost finished with the players base so next season I want to buy 1-2 players to strentghen my team. It's like this: all the errors and tests and results which I did with the first team are used to build the second one.

So, I'm just wondering, how high was their JR in relation to the rest of their skills? Are we talking a difference of 8-10 or 4-5, and was it that JR was much higher than every skill or just a few skills?

Last edited by Mountaineer at 4/8/2016 2:47:03 PM

You can't make players like this with L4 trainer...foolish. My PG has 10/10 ID/SB. ;)

Hehehe. I heard this stuff too. Haek was trained with a lv 4 trainer.129 TSP and a pretty low salary.
It is always easy to say what someone cannot do. When I started my new training project with Sonnemans most of the others said he will not work and he will be no player for the NT. But we will see. ..

So, I'm just wondering, how high was their JR in relation to the rest of their skills? Are we talking a difference of 8-10 or 4-5, and was it that JR was much higher than every skill or just a few skills?

Well, I got them as 18 year olds, and trained outside shooting almost exclusively (I think once two position on a two game week, and I think jump shot twice on two game weeks), so JR has gotten to about 3-6 ahead of JS and 8+ more than anything else.

Hehehe. I heard this stuff too. Haek was trained with a lv 4 trainer.129 TSP and a pretty low salary.
It is always easy to say what someone cannot do. When I started my new training project with Sonnemans most of the others said he will not work and he will be no player for the NT. But we will see. ..

I think we should just let him rant and build his 20 DR 20 HA players with 140 TSP (presumably) and inferior builds.

On the NT side: I think Haek the other German NT guy with 17/17/17 ID/RB/SB (who is inferior to my trainee) and also Jagermeister are cost controlled players, which is a massive plus for club play. At the NT level though 9 IS on a big man is not going to be viewed favourably by many NT coaches and even among those who would like that, they'd use such a player mostly unconventionally.


Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/9/2016 11:13:37 AM

Hehehe. I heard this stuff too. Haek was trained with a lv 4 trainer.129 TSP and a pretty low salary.
It is always easy to say what someone cannot do. When I started my new training project with Sonnemans most of the others said he will not work and he will be no player for the NT. But we will see. ..

I think we should just let him rant and build his 20 DR 20 HA players with 140 TSP (presumably) and inferior builds.

On the NT side: I think Haek the other German NT guy with 17/17/17 ID/RB/SB (who is inferior to my trainee) and also Jagermeister are cost controlled players, which is a massive plus for club play. At the NT level though 9 IS on a big man is not going to be viewed favourably by many NT coaches and even among those who would like that, they'd use such a player mostly unconventionally.

True, this kind of players are a special class. And you can't use them in every game. But for some specific tasks they are exellent choices. I know for sure, that Haek influenced the tactic decissions of some NTs just because he had GS 9. They changed their plans from inside to another tactic. Sometimes it's enough to get inside the head of your opponent.

I was saying that you can have the SAME salary but have 40 more skill points. That is how the salary formula works.

It doesn't work like that and it never has. If you were able read the table I gave you, you would understand why.

Now Nachmahr has told you you can train a player with 18OD 18HA 18PA 18ID 18SB with a level 4 trainer. Do you need more proof?

I made a guy who could stop LI attacks for his NT because he had high SB and who could kill it

Tsunami was not the best player on his own team. Japan never won anything. His club coach wasn't getting to the KO stage in the B3 regularly with him as his third best player. That's the truth. Now you can keep ranting about how good he was. Provide his skillset and then, maybe, we'll talk. He's 36 and not playing for his NT, so there is no reason to keep it secret.

My PG has 10/10 ID/SB. ;)

Good for you. I fail to see how that's impressive, but I'm happy for you.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/9/2016 11:36:28 AM