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Lets talk about SB

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This Post:
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262742.39 in reply to 262742.38
Date: 11/1/2014 9:09:21 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
234234
High SB and 3-2 will be strong against LI or LP. Just wait a little bit ;)

Already done in PL last week (75326632)
I don't expect much SB but lower the shots inside the paint, the fear factor.



I am sure, that having way much higher wages does the trick.


http://www.buzzerbeater.com/league/1125/overview.aspx?sea... finished 22-0 with 650k~ payroll against 800-900k~ .

Now I'm paying too much in the Bigs cause in TL were no bigs with high SB and low IS. Can't create for tomorrow from training one of my personal taste. Now i'm training a SG with very high JR.

This is my last Off Topic. :P


Very good season, my congratulations, great effect for the money - I am not taking credits away from you. Correct me if I'm wrong - I thought that you were not playing 3-2 zone defence with high SB against LI very often in the previous season.

I was only saying that we could say that 3-2 defence with high SB against LI/LP is successful after given respectable number of games where teams with similar salaries and enthusiasm can deliver decent result. The last game you've shown looked to me like racing VW Beetle with a Porsche.

This Post:
00
262742.42 in reply to 262742.41
Date: 11/3/2014 9:56:54 PM
Infested Warriors
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
775775
In no way shape or form i REAL basketball is the 3-2 zone a premier defence for defending the paint. It just isn't EVER. If you could be assured your opponent can not shoot from outside you will use a 2-1-2/2-3 defence and or just play man to man and float/sag and deny the paint and entry passes and force the opponent to shoot jumpers.

I've been dreaming with a 2-1-2 zone since Season 3. My personal favorite to play in RL.

This Post:
00
262742.43 in reply to 262742.41
Date: 11/3/2014 11:31:24 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
I'm glad you are making headway with shotblocking. But 3-2 becoming a premier shotblocking/inside attack stopping defense is a 100% complete horrific failure to simulate the game of basketball.

It has become alien-ball and has nothing to do with the real life game anymore.


Is this the point the simulation stops being realistic?

I want to say that it's my impression (based strictly on random recollections from my time pre-GM hat, since we get no extra inside knowledge as staff) that Marin has said that actually modifying the game engine itself may be beyond what he'll be able to do. I think making certain skills more effective by counting more for how things are calculated is possible (which I think the SB changes were), but revamping the zones themselves to represent a more accurate version of the zone may be impossible. I hope I'm just misremembering though.

This Post:
1212
262742.49 in reply to 262742.47
Date: 11/4/2014 6:12:33 AM
white snake
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
72437243
Second Team:
Black Forest Boars
The only thing I can think of is that pressure has to be reworked in how it relates to passes and drives on inside shots. OD needs to be removed from the equation. Its not longer OD/ID. OD seems to mean pass defence and ID seems to mean just about nothing aside an SB helper or something like that. OD should only apply to plays outside, including passes. ID should be the primary defense stat used for passes and drives inside, never OD like it seems to be so much now.

First of all, I think also the OD is to strong atm. In Season 10 when Charles remodeled it, he overpowered OD.
The thing about driving layups is that they start as an outside play and finish as an inside play in the GE. So OD has to be used for this action.
Than OD is used for everything outside the paint. Because of the 3 sec violation your players have to be outside the paint (most of the time) to receive the ball or to play a pass. So again OD is used because we are not inside the paint. From the piont "ID inside the paint, OD outside the paint" everything works well. But again OD is so strong that it influences everything to much.

In addition they need to address open shots missing more often than guarded ones. 1 OD defended shot should always be worse than an open 3 base % wise, even if the team pressure rating is 50000. Right now this isn't happening, I believe if they look close at their code they will see that the %s for open shots can be lower than the % is guarded shots...which is just wrong.

I think most of this is the fault of us users. From my analysis there are two main errors made by us: 1) to low passing and 2) no JR.
about 1) you need passing to create open shots (with a high possible FG%). A high passing player will find a way to help his teammates and overcome the OD of his defender. Currently there are 103 players with OD 17 or higher on the TL and only 18 with passing 17 or higher. That's the same mistake we did with SB. (There is a post from Charles where he esplaines that a high passing will result in more open shots with a high FG%).
about 2) JR supports every shot outside the paint. It's the counterpart for OD. OD tries to decrease your FG% and JR works against this and tries to increase it. But there are only 4 players with JR 17 or higher on the TL.

Be honest, in BB most of the managers train OD, IS and DR. These three skills are considered almost as "God-Skills." It's unbelivable easy to buy a player with a high skill in at least one of these three.
But the other skills like PA, JR and SB are something like the ugly cousin. And no one wants to play with her. Since Season 7, Charles said that we have to train SB. It's the most important skill for defense. But everyone trained IS and complained that the defense is broken. Charles also said you need high passing to find open shots and a high FG%. But everyone trained OD to prevent this. He also said that JR is the most important skill for a SG and that JS>JR is wrong. But I again everyone complains about the Engine. You know the 80-20 rule? 80% of the problems sit 20 cm before the desktop. That's the case here.

Before you quit I tried to explain how the BBs intended the 2-3 zone to be. But this ended in an explosion from your side. ;)
When the BBs programmed the 2-3 zone their main target was to strengthen RB and close the paint. They never thought that the guards would have IS 10+. They had high passing guards in mind. These guards would try to find a open shot for their bigs. But our current guards have high JS, DR and IS. They are build completly different than they were intendend. And that's the reason the 2-3 isn't working. The BBs and we have a different "understanding" on guards for inside tactics. That's like you build a garage for a Smart and your wife comes with a Escalade and complaines that you messed it up. ;)

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