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Knecht is a former player who is back for those who don't know.

So Knecht, your team is a little more than a season old and you are not competitive with the very best teams in your league.
It's a common problem in small leagues as the gap can be sometines huge.

The best teams in your league have been playing for 10 seasons. You are not expected to match them just now. You are building your team over time.
It's not about the salary floor. In your situation, the only way to make you competitive in this league is to make cash rain on you. Simple.
You should straightforwardly ask for new teams in small leagues to be given 20M at the start. You want a sugar daddy.
Would it be fair for the other teams in your league ?
In large leagues, new teams are not competitive at the next level on their second season either.
You are already making insane amount of cash from the point of view of 99% of the new users. Thanks to this cash, you will be competitive in this league before they will be able to mount a challenge themselves.

Flawed perception of a problem. It's all relative.

It really is not. I am losing money for nothing and so do six other teams in my league - most of them because they don't know better I guess.

The faster the gap to established team is closed the higher the fun for those established teams (because of stronger competition) and the new ones (because of better chances to compete) will be. So putting the new teams in a situation where they can catch up faster is a win-win.

I am paying 50k per week for nothing, I am not tanking in the "bad" sense and I would spend much more on my players if I could. But right now I have to play this pathetic roster just to be able to invest every single dollar I make in my arena.

What would be the problem to give new teams in DIVII like 10k arena, DIVIII a 7.5k seat arena? Or change the salary floor formula in a way it punishes tanking teams (calculating an average of past salaries) and ignores new teams that will increase their payroll anyway?

I am confident that I will make DIV I in a short time, but especially new unexperienced users get screwed by the salary floor in a way that simply protects those at the top and holds back the new teams.

And back to my question, how long are you not included in those that need to pay salary floor. And how high salary do you have and what is the salary floor in your league?

My protection ran out five weeks ago.

I have "true" salaries of 88k, but pay 148k.

With the promotion money I bought a 200k guard, realized that this guy would take me nowhere, sold him for a nice profit. Bought semi-ready PF/C to finish his training and put the rest of the money in my arena. Bought and sold a couple other players for a small profit overall.

I have 1.5k in the bank, will be in the red on monday and have around 100k after next home game. not enough th get a player that can both help me to go over the floor AND improve my teams quality - so just for the sake of having a player I wont buy ne, but rather invest the money I save form not buying sb. in my arena.

I am not tanking in the "bad" sense

You are tanking. You have only 4 players, for sure it's tanking.

and so do six other teams in my league

In Your league I quickly found 4 bots/semibots (I checked date of last login). So they shouldn't be count as real teams.

Salary floor was implemented to make tanking less profitable. You are tanking and because of salary floor you have less profits. So everything works properly.

I am not even challenging that. But the situation is particular to small leagues like yours.

So don't the blame the salary floor.
You need much more cash and revenues to be competitive quicker so ask for cash and a big arena and make your case.
It's just what I wanted to point out.

It's all a discussion about small leagues again.
Do you really need to be competitive quicker and is it fair to older teams ?
You believe you are hold back but you will keep yourself in II with a Z roster and continue cashing high revenues, doing nothing in particular. Soon you will have large amounts of cash to work with.
Out of interest, how much do you have a the moment ?

You are really asking for an easy game for you but go on. Just leave the salary floor alone.

What would be the problem to give new teams in DIVII like 10k arena, DIVIII a 7.5k seat arena

Team X signs up at 8:00pm and gets placed in div.III. Gets a 7.5k seat arena.
Div III is now full.
Team Y signs up at 8:05pm and gets placed in div.IV. Gets a 5k seat arena.

Both teams have a 1-20 record. They both play 1 game and team X demotes into div IV with team Y.

1 team has a 2.5k larger arena. That would be a problem.

Out of interest, how much do you have a the moment ?

1.5k, will be in the red on Monday, as posted earlier.

I am not tanking in the "bad" sense

You are tanking. You have only 4 players, for sure it's tanking.

If I had 7 players I would still be gang-raped by half the league, so whats your point here? I cant be competitive because I cant buy better players, so it makes no difference if I field three or five or 10 players. I cant buy more expensive ones.

Salary floor was introduced to stop teams from promoting, sitting out a season and make millions that way. I am not making any money right now, lose every game by a huge margin and wont be able to buy a quality player in the next 1.5 seasons.

Last edited by Knecht at 1/30/2013 1:38:51 PM

I cant be competitive because I cant buy better players, so it makes no difference if I field three or five or 10 players.

Still it's tanking.
Even reason is typical, there is no difference between Your case and other cases.

I see that in last home match You gained 205k, it's only 40-50k less than bottom attendance in my league. At the same time Your PSF is 50k less than mine so it's enough redress.
However in my league it's impossible to avoid relegation with TPS = PSF, TPS should ~2x higher than TPS. You can survive for free (even in 2nd league You are for free, because on levels 1 and 2 we have 80 slots, it's equal to number of teams in Your country). Therefore You can develop team faster than teams in my league. Next facilitation isn't needed, it would be unfair. I even think that Your situation is too easy and PSF should be even higher (let's say 50% higher).

I am not making any money right now

So You are doing something wrong. Please copy&paste here Your Baseline Weekly Economy and League Averages from Last Week.

I am not making any money right now

So You are doing something wrong. Please copy&paste here Your Baseline Weekly Economy and League Averages from Last Week.

Well, based on what he's said in the thread, he's paying 50k above his weekly salaries to reach the TSF, so for rough estimates we can use a TSF of $140k, which would have a TV revenue of $100k. If he made 205k on his last match, then, and assuming zero merchandising, he'd have to staff + scouting costs of >$165k per week to not make money for this week.

I think instead the true cause of his "not making money" may be:

1. Gameday - receive revenue
2. take that revenue, buy more arena seats
3. Weekly update, why i no haz money?1!?!1

Well, that and a stretch of a lot of road games right now.

Last edited by GM-hrudey at 1/30/2013 3:22:41 PM

Salary floor was introduced to stop teams from promoting, sitting out a season and make millions that way. I am not making any money right now, lose every game by a huge margin and wont be able to buy a quality player in the next 1.5 seasons.

What the salary floor mainly does is helping to stop teams to escape demotion by throwing out the season then buy a super team for the relegation series and stay up, sometimes at the expenses of a team who actually tried to play the game. This can be done infinitely in a top league and is unwanted behaviour. If a team failed financially, it should go down, no reason to let them use and take advantage of a weakness of the game.

In one season and a half, you have invested 2.6M in your arena. So you earned at least that amount.
You have been building your arena and you will earn more in your next 1.5 season than in your first one.
You must have more than doubled your game day revenues thanks to the large cash you are given. This is helping you to close the gap in revenues between you and the older teams at fast speed.

The game mechanisms are working fine imo. You can do this because you need a big help to quick start your team because of the level of the teams you face. Fair. How much more help do you need ?
In lower leagues, you wouldn't have those teams to face but you wouldn't have that money for players and arena building either. So the mechanisms are working fine and you are not worse off than any other new team.