BuzzerBeater Forums

Now that the salaries have been readjusted I'm not sure that this is as good of a guide as it was in the past. Its still somewhat helpful, but its not the exact science it once was.

I'm more curious as to the level of trainer that most managers have who own U21 or even the "big boy" NT players? For example. . . do we have a good idea on what is more impacting between the potential and the level of trainer? I know that we ideally pursue the highest potential players and highest level of trainer that we can but we only have so much money to invest. . .so is it worth my time to go after a world class trainer over an exceptional trainer? This might be the difference of 500k or more from what I've seen. Were I to invest that money on a single player I might find that I can get a higher potential player with better skills, but that wouldn't necessarily benefit the US team as I'm limiting the pace of his training?

Have we consider this as a reason as to why some players are training slower? Ultimately its up to the coach and their ability to differentiate between the value of single position and multi-position training, but there must also some speculation as to how valuable an exceptional trainer is over a superior trainer. If two players of equal skill, potential, and training schedule are monitored over the course of a season, can we accurately deduce the impact of the training level?

Also any volunteers to test this theory out?

I'm cash strapped right now as I fight for staving relegation to D4, if I do get relegated I might just want to test this out.

If you don't want to log into an external website (which I think is a rather absurd constraint, but I'll give it to you), you have the option of BB-mailing me or Wozz, or the future U21 coach: if you don't BB-mail with a total non-starter (and sometimes even in those cases) or a foreign player (that happens too), I will reply with a fairly detailed account of possible training strategies.

I really, honestly, do not see the problem.

There's no problem and logging into the offsite forum isn't a big deal or huge bother. However, I don't want the crux of my argument to get lost in any of the banter about whether or not I, Xarn will use that site. And maybe I need to soften my message by reaffirming that you have been extremely helpful and willing to discuss specific players any time I have asked. albeit, I haven't asked often. You're doing a fantastic job in that regard.

However, I do hope that somehow we can find a way to engage the average user, here, in this forum. I really believe there is value in making the u21 team just a little more transparent by engaging the community here in the game that we're all addicted to playing. Discussing things that are not trade secrets can only improve the visibility and interest level in the u21 team. In turn, you might start seeing better quality players at your disposal or, at least, an increase in the depth of your positions. Is there a place for an offsite forum, a safe place where you can discuss the current roster, matches and strategies? You bet.


Is there a way to engage those who are willing to listen and willing to train without requiring that level of activity? I do not know, but I hope so.

I've noticed some countries put up min. requirements on the NT/U21 overview page

Yeah, and we could do that. I've consciously avoided this in the past for two main reasons:

(1) I think the NT requirements, quite frankly, would be discouraging to a lot of users when they look at their new 18 year olds. Stating that a guy needs 15 OD to make the team when you've just drafted a mediocre OD guard can be disheartening. Even though we certainly do have guys on the team that started like that. The u21 team wouldn't be quite so bad in this regard.

(2) We need to make sure that people who look at the forum only casually understand that the requirements are guidelines. No matter what I put as minimum requirements, I can imagine exceptions that might be useful on the NT. For example, we do have relatively poor OD guards that are on the team because they can score like mad, or give us flexibility at SF, or can exploit a specific matchup. The concern is that by putting any actual number requirements in, people will see those, won't read the rest of the post about how exceptions can still be valuable, and then give up. For this reason, the "minimum requirements" threads I've seen in other forums tend to be so broad as to be apparently meaningless.

The other point here is that there's a limit to how proactive we can be as NT coaches. We can't post news items. We can't send mass emails (which, frankly, I wouldn't want to do anyway). We can't contact every owner individually because there's too many. If users don't come to the forum, there's not much we can do. There is an NT ad set so that all players reaching some minimal salary criteria get a link to the database on the player page so that they can keep their players updated and see how they stack up. This has actually worked reasonably well, although for fringe players, or guys that haven't trained yet, they won't see the ad, of course.

If people think that having posted requirements would be beneficial enough to outweigh my concerns above, then I'm happy to do so (at least for the NT--the u21 is harder since requirements change drastically during the course of the season).

Exactly. As the NT coach of New Zealand, I've had the same experience of someone asking me what it takes, and then they're like "oh I'll never be able to get far with him" and not focus on the player any more. It's very discouraging for some, that's why I advise my Kiwis to just keep plugging away, rotate training skills with some emphasis on particular attributes, but that's as far as I'll go.

Why is it necesary to go to another website to get general guidleines?

I'm not asking for strategy or game planning tips. Hell I'm not even asking for current roster specs.

I'm asking for a general discussion of what the minimum skills are to get a player considered for the squad.


I don't want to be involved in the NT/u21 here in so far as I don't excited about the tournament, the pregame match strategy, etc etc. I am, however, willing to train my players in a manner that might make them useful to the u21 team. I guess what I'm trying to say is that because I'm a manager who attempts to manage my players effectively and religiously, I can be of value to u21 team without having to be part of the u21 team organization. Yet, that doesn't seem to be an option here.

My choices are participate in the off site forum or don't be involved. In that case, the u21 team loses.

Well said and "bingo'.

Now that the salaries have been readjusted I'm not sure that this is as good of a guide as it was in the past. Its still somewhat helpful, but its not the exact science it once was

Especially concerning SF's. SGs and PFs naturally have higher salaries than a well rounded SF, which is why we see very few true SF's on the U21s. Havebt checked in a couple weeks, but most of the season there were no SFs on the U21, SGs and PFs were used. Not saying this was the wrong choice at all, it most likely was the best option. Just thinking a well rounded SF like Gene O'Connell is always going to be a long shot to make the squad because of his lower salary, and thus lower radar signature. The fact that this particular player also seems to power train (1 pos) either PG or C also gives him a lower rating signature than if he played his intended position.

You see, that is why we as USA coaches need some guidelines on player development. I've been fortunate to follow the earlier advice of GM-Brian, and developed my core players all-around. But, even in doing that, they are behind the curve. It seems to me that unless you do one position training, and forsake all other, you do not have a chance.

If you don't one position train you do not have a hope of making the U21. This is because now all the other managers will be single position training and by not doing so your player falls behind.

I also sincerely believe that single position training is the best way to develop your team in the long run, I know the majority here will still disagree but it works wonders.

But, what if you have a core of solid players that you'd like to hang on to? I have five players that form a good nucleius for my team. It allows me to stay in games I would have otherwise lost. So, what does one do?

I have 6 people I train. 3 Are my main guys who will each get 48 minutes when I single position train. The other 3 get the rest of the minutes when I train something such as JS or 1v1 which I'm forced to train two position. As a result I have developed some very good guards which have helped me be successful.

Each manager has his own style but the bottom line is if you have a prospect you want to get to an "Elite" Level however you define it, Single position training is the only way thats going to get them to that level.