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Let's try something else - can you bring the amount of seasons each team in your league (on last season) has been in BB and the place they've reached (on that season)?

I don't have the time to compile such information, but I have previously collected some information about the starting times of the teams (mostly for the highest league in Suomi, SM-Koris), which you may find interesting. Check the links.

Translation:
Kausi == Season
k == short for season

Season 13 stats: (155611.1)
Season 13 stats: (155611.6) (same as first link, includes II division)
Season 17 stats: (155611.20) (includes new teams for s18 and the div II finalists in s17)

In season 13 the median team of top league levels in Suomi:
season 4 / div IV ...... SM-Koris
season 4 / div IV ...... division II
season 6 / div IV ...... regular season winners in division III

In season 17 the median team in SM-Koris was still from s4/IV, but the average team has got younger. (Of course, the teams are actually 4 seasons older now... but you get the idea.)

In addition, here's a plot of the cumulative wins in regular season for the top 17 teams in SM-Koris history (teams with more than 50 wins in regular season). There is some nice info on how new teams have slowly gained ground in the top league (you can find the starting times/league levels of most of these teams in the linked messages): (http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/2540/smkorisulwinsinre...).

Conclusion: It's a rocky road to the top, but it can be done.

Last edited by GM-WallyOop at 11/4/2011 12:35:16 PM

Let's start from the information I've asked you kindly to bring.
When someone is evading from answering a question, twice, I know that I got to something.

Well, I took a look at your league you played last year (just the "great 8" - your conference), and wanted to see whether I had reason to bring this suggestion. More precisely - is it true that the current system does not allow competativeness.

I was totaly "suprised" to learn that in this group none had been newer than teams who had been playing from season 4 !!!
Although there where 13 seasons from that season, none had been able to reach this league!

I'll say that this alone proves my case of a great need for a competativeness system.

[I'll answer you last message in a separate message]

2) That 50K player, will probably will be a great backup in the his new DIV.

he was 20min backup at the last BBB, and not that unsuccesful ;) Secondary bring a lot into the game, thats why a salry cap work more for more multiskill then for making money equal.

Everyone tries to maximize skills-to-money.
More money does allow you to maximize it more, but just to have better players (that costs more money...).

today you have the decision to get more primarys, for a cheap price and paying more for salarys or buying more expensiv secondaries to have a lower paycheck. second option will be gone, with a salary cap, even when this is the possibility most team who promotes and then be competive choose(and still earned money, not championship teams but not in fight against relegation also)

No it will not happen, as economy is always about balance.
When the "demand" to a specific kind of players rises, but their "supply" does not change then their price is higher.
When their price is higher, the decision returns...
Pay more for getting a specific player on an auction, or paying less on that player and then paying more due to the cap.

In addition, this cap can be defined by other means - Value of a player, Transfer's cost, etc.

I now know what has happened to BB server. When you created a team the server got dumbness overload. That's why all updates are late and they can't pinpoint the thing causing it. I think we need an ignore user suggestion. It would effectivly filter out all the garbage suggestions and one can focus on the normal suggestions. I'm sure BB's would use that addition.
I've heard one "challenged" person can ask dumb questions faster than 10 smart people can answer them. But this is getting ridiculous. Sorry for the offtopic.

Your posts are just ignorant. It ignores the fact that smart management will make you promote a lot faster than if you are not adding value to your team at all. Here is an analysis on Australian ABBL done by another user for this upcoming season:

Big 8
Team/ Season Started
Kynlala Knights 9
Black Label Society 2
Baxter Bogans 7
Monkey Business 9
Lewisham Wombats 2
Bell Park SuperCats 3
Zazzocalypse 7
Da Fat Boy Slim 9

Great 8
Whitebeard 9
WA IS A DUMP 3
Billy Hoyles Boys 6
Koopasaurus 9
Pancakes with Jam and Cream 4
Hadders Heros 3
hopelessly addicted 6
Chelsea Seagulls 10

As you can see, the youngest team currently in ABBL started in season 10. Given that Australia has 4 divisions and we are in season 18, then more or less that team averaged a promotion once every 2 seasons which is fair. You can't seriously expect to start a new team and be able to compete in the top tier of competition from the get go.

I myself, have been in ABBL since season 16 and have been one of the top tier Division 2 teams (fighting for promotion) since season 13 so it can be done.

To sum up, it is NOT the game's fault that a user is a poor manager and is not promoting as fast as other users. New teams CAN catchup but obviously you can't expect to do that from day 1. It takes a bit of patience. This game is a marathon not a sprint.

Actually no, you're wrong. If he didn't manage to go up from div IV to div II in just one season, than the game is seriously flawed. Not to mention that is unbelievably hard to build your roster without auto-bids, end-of-auction buzzers, and impossible to win withoug seeing your opponents' players skills

I smell ponzi schme in the making :-)

Well, I've looked at the "Great 8" of League II.1 on your country to see how can it be.

The answer is that most teams there had been created at the same the teams from DIV-I!
There are two old teams (season 5), but the rest are also from around season 10.

In addition, I didn't found a single team that had been created from season 11 or above also on this DIV II.1!!!
Seven seasons, and althogh it seems a lot of old users just left the game, still they didn't been able to get to this league.

And again, it is not a supprise.
Each year a team adds to their assets - player's value, seats, etc.
Due to that, this gap is almost impossible to close by new teams.

In case you think that it is not true, then why not removing all assets at the start of each 3-rd season from all teams?
The good BB manager will just get it back faster (as you were trying to say). Right?

You just want to keep current system this way, due to understandable reasons, as your team is on the right side of the situation.

Last edited by Pini פיני at 11/5/2011 7:00:49 AM

In our Bundesliga (Div I.) most teams were created before Season 6, still one Team was created in Season 12 (and in our Div II 4 another season 12 team was able to get to the Playoff finals and nearly promoted)

Of course its not easy to close the Gap, but it certainly is not impossible

You can't punish players just because they play longer than you, besides introducing a Salary Cap wouldn't change that advantage anyway - the older Teams would still gain more money and would be able to buy better Players (secondaries)

In case you think that it is not true, then why not removing all assets at the start of each 3-rd season from all teams?
The good BB manager will just get it back faster (as you were trying to say). Right?

Is this a suggestion or just talk? This is a long-term game by design. A change like that would require a huge change to just about everything in the game (the exceptions would pretty much be the game engine, game viewer, some support functionality such as the transfer list, and the forums).

When you join, you compete against the guys who start about the same time in your country. Does this system have problems? Sure. When a country grows very slowly (or not at all), many new users are put in a tough spot. The pyramid shape of the league structure may not be the best option for small countries; for bigger ones it is a necessity. Every season, however, a skilled manager progresses against those who started around the same time and "gets put on the next level of competition" (not necessarily league level). The point is that you are always firstly competing against your peers. That keeps the game interesting for as many people as possible.

If you study the plot I posted a few messages back, you can see various team trajectories that relate to manager skill, short-term spending, "player generations", etc. in my country's top league during seasons 3-17. This is still a fairly limited amount of data, and it is difficult to take a deep dive into the meanings without knowing about the competition in the league and background of various teams. What you can see are stories about "bankruptcies" vs. good financial planning, successes vs. just competing day in day out. The gaps have been closed by many teams, and many more are closing in. Does it take time? Yes, but it is possible and it happens all the time. Here it is again for convenience: (http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/2540/smkorisulwinsinre...).

Last edited by GM-WallyOop at 11/5/2011 7:44:33 AM