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1. Ideally a top shooting guard would something like 14/14/14/10/11/10 by the beginning of their 21 year old season. That's basically Lucas at the start of his 21yo season, taking the extra passing and moving it to JR and the extra OD and moving it to JS. Basically I'm looking for more JS/JR. You need a fair amount more, though, or else you get players like Donnie McDaniel, who fewmit was describing when he mentioned "chuckers who play LI". I'd rather have another point guard than one of those players. But a great shooter like Jonathan Yi or Jimmie Brown could be a valuable asset, I think.

Question for you, Jon. You mention few times now about having better offensive SGs could be an asset. And you here you specifically mention Yi and Brown, so here's my take on Yi and Brown and I'm curious what you think of it:

Yi shot 44% and 37% on treys. 12.6 pts/game. Pretty spiffy, aye? Now this was an Americas season. The teams faced that season an average team WR of 44. Correspondingly, magiker had the flexibility to only run LI 4 out of 13 games.

Go back a season and Brown shot 25% and 0% (0-19) on treys. 7.7 pts/game. Not so spiffy. But why? Because, I posit, Rambo played LI 10 of 11 games and faced teams with an average WR of 11.

So my take away from this is that an elite SG is not going to be as much of as assist as some think...they'll get shut down against better competition, and against better competition the best tactic is most likely to be LI. What is your take on what I have here, and how does it fit with your feeling a shooting SG would be an asset?

I never thought it would be a huge assist. I did think it would make us slightly better. I might have to reconsider that position in light of this evidence.

One thing I've noticed, though: there were several games where Brown was the best passer in terms of # of assists on a team with Kenny Luther and Laverne Goddard, both now NT-caliber point guards who were better passers even then. There were at least a couple of games this past season when McDaniel either led the team in assists or tied for the team lead, despite coming off the bench. In the case of McDaniel, he was tied with players who had as much as +7 passing on him. It seems to support the spacing theory, that being able to shoot opens up the pass a bit more. Of course, I'll be the first to admit that that's just speculation and not based on any study or statistical analysis or anything.

Also, that was a time when we had dominant big men, Hammond and Merrill both being $100K+ salary with great skills. We don't have that as much any more. There were plenty of times this past season when our guards were jacking up tons of last-second shots, having no alternative. It would be nice to have a guard who could actually make some of those. But the evidence does seem to indicate that even a better shooter struggles to make his shots at the U21 level in an LI offense, so we'll see.

Don't worry, Martinez is the one of the best U21 SFs I've ever seen. He's a lock. Official Cabal endorsement.

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Yeah I've noticed the passing deal also, and the spacing theory is something I don't discount. The flip side if true is that being able to shoot makes these guys, well, shoot So cost / benefit of opening up the floor vs low shooting %...???. I lean towards fixing/nixing the shooting but I can see where there's room for debate.

To go back to the discussion about better offense on guards, I was the one who trained Yi and had him on my team when he was 21 as well. Now, his offense was slightly better than most U21 players, however if you asked me now if it was worth it to train him that way I would say...YES. Does he help your team in a LI offense as much? Well, no but he is still useful on the team. That season Magiker ran what was best for the team which was RNG most games. Yi was a stud on the court and many teams (especially remember Canada) feared Yi. If we have players like that on the team it would leave it open to do multiple tactics. BUT you would still need the classic LI builds on the team so I would say 2 Yis or Browns on the team every season could be useful.

I didn't mean literally but by the time I'm done with them they'll need a few skills to build up to be on the NT

vote for mick