BuzzerBeater Forums

It's not possible to have utopia going on a different schedule than the rest of the game (edit: I see the proposal of the second server, but then it would mean that Utopia is isolated: not more transfers between Utopia and non-Utopia teams).

In that thread he admitted it's possible to do changes to the schedule, just not dramatic ones. So if you want to change the league format (number of teams and tiers), that won't happen, but Joe's proposal changes very little, but shave almost 1/3 off the season length. I will add that not only is it possible to implement this, but it's also very easily reversible. My concern is for training since it will become overwhelmingly hard to do out of position training and train youngsters if you compete at a decent level. However make training faster by 1.4x and cut gates appropriately (divide by up to 1.4x) to maintain the same level of revenues over the 10 week period (to prevent inflation) and if people don't like it, it's too hard to manage because of 3 league games or whatever, you can always roll it back after one or 2 seasons. This thing would not have any long lasting effects: once the season is over the experiment is also over. It's not like utopia or GE or salary changes: once those are done they can't be removed and have long lasting effects because affect how managers plan for the long term (if you make a change to improve outside shooting and people train the relevant skills accordingly, there would be heavy consequences for reversing the change altogether the following season)

Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/17/2020 7:22:45 PM

It would be helpful for new teams to have the option to get a loan to build up their arena faster. Thoughts on implementing something like this?

It's very difficult for teams to earn revenue.
Building up the arena is the main way, but that's very expensive and the additional revenue is not proportional to the investment because as capacity expands, prices need to come down to maximize revenue.
Do you think additional, more predictable revenue streams are needed, such as team sponsorships, win bonuses, an end of season league position bonus, etc?

Joe you won several titles and went deep in the B3, so you know this: winning the cup is much easier than winning the league. I've had seasons where I had to eliminate 4 D1 teams in the first 6 or 7 games before they changed the structure, but I also got in the final by eliminating 1 or 2. The cup is largely based on luck and the only way top teams are going out is if they throw the cup game to focus on the league (not very likely) or if they play a slightly inferior team in the first half of the cup (when you can still play with a double effort gap and there is HCA) or injuries/mistakes.

The cup is only there to earn bad D1 and lower division teams some cash based on luck. There is probably anywhere between 2 and 8 teams that can win it, which typically are the same teams that can win the D1 title. I don't think there is any example of a D2 team winning the cup in BB.

And while in lower divisions the cup only gives a little cash boost to some teams over others, he problem with the cup draw in D1 is that it affects indirectly the standings in the league. In particular if you are lucky that a team you'd have no chance against throws the game against you (and not the other league game of the week).

Once you move to 3 league games per week, you can simply scrap the cup tournament and make it a tournament of presumable equals (similar to the B3, but a lower level one). Hand out similar cash prizes and everyone will be happy. Note that you can play all of these games on Wednesday together with B3 games (so if you are in the B3 you play the B3, if you're not you play some sort of other transnational cup).

Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/18/2020 8:12:42 AM

Thats what i thought when Marin suggested it, that its not possible

(304302.78) I think by "opinion against", he meant you actually lol.

1-2 seasons is long enough to give people an idea whether they like that system better. Marin and BBs have been very passive on change, instead of being proactive and explaining and leading, so this should be perfect for them. Don't like it? We change it back. Nobody's hurt or lost out (if you normalise gate receipts and training)

Yeah training minutes are a problem because if you have 2 young trainees, now instead of losing 1 league game out of 2, suddenly you lose 2 out of 3. You don't have the luxury of scrimmages or cup games against bots anymore. So I suggested elsewhere that minutes in the 4th game also count for training and ONLY for training (not GS etc). Basically whoever you play in that game at a training position can receive training...still limited to 3 players or 144 minutes.

The cup is just a random shitshow, always has been: it's only tolerable for lower teams because they can get some money out of it. Note that Marin did change the structure of the cup in the past so that lower division teams don't have to play D1 teams in the first round. I think the Cup as currently constructed just isn't very interesting for 90% teams. It's better to make it like a B3 for inferior teams or some other kind of tournament between teams of similar caliber (similar World Ranking). It could even change format every other season: so one season you have B3 light, meaning you take the top 256 WR teams, qualifying round and a knockout bracket, next 256 another knockout bracket etc, next season you do a tournament (again with teams with similar WR) more like a private league with a couple of round robins and semifinals and final. Adjust the cash prizes to keep the money handed out the same and job done. These formats are used also in NT competitions are they not? This way you shift a little money from D1 teams to lower teams that typically go out of the cup sooner and you have made some competitive tournaments for everyone which are not based on LUCK. Better still: you are free to ignore the cup altogether and play the standard lineup into oblivion if you don't care about the money or training, since it would have no impact on GS or Enth.

I think it's fair that you do this only if there are no GS/Enth considerations, because you sever the link between the cup and national leagues completely.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/18/2020 9:10:52 AM

Yeah well, technically a D4 team won in Utopia the first year too.

But that means 4 games to prepare for the ones who want to train young players instead of 3 (like Surcouf)

4th game has no minute implications other than training mate. How do you need to 'prepare' for that? You mean you need to change the trainee or the trainee position in the lineup in the 4th game every week while leaving everything else the same?

About training I don't think it will be better or less good, but just different.

I trained 18yo and 19yo in D1 (single position). It's hard. This would kill it off, forcing you to go down if you have young trainees. Giving up 50% of the games gives you a fighting chance. Giving up 66% of the games gives you no chance. Logically, most D1 teams will only have 1 trainee and will throw the game when they play that trainee; while playing their best possible lineup in the other 2 games.

In D2, now you can get away with having 3 young trainees. However that is only because you can play 4 great players twice alongside them and still hope to win. If you are forced to mix those players it won't work. And if you don't mix them you will lose the 3rd game 100% of the times.

You'd devastate most homegrown teams as well.

The reality of the situation is that we use scrimmages and thrown games to train players, because the training system is what it is. If you do your change, the majority of the people who will quit are the guys who happily trained while competing and now will think it's become impossible unless you give up one trainee. Discouraging training is never a good idea, in this kind of games, mostly because if there are no players there is no game.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/18/2020 10:11:25 AM

We should probably use the other thread for discussing and this one for questions