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bth he would have it much easier if anderson also was no good shot blocker, oh wait maybe then he won't play anymore ;)

And if you have a player like your 1472 guy, who even don't raises his arm when duncan throws the ball - even if he push him a way from the basket Duncan will score a lot.

And if you have a 14 SB 2 ID guy, he will be a noob in defence too^^

Last edited by CrazyEye at 7/30/2009 3:17:45 PM

I believe, the point here is not to mention a specific way by wich SB should affect the defense of a shot but to focus in the idea that , in someway, in the GE, SB should have some defensive effect besides the possibility of Shotblock.

Last edited by Zero, the Magi. at 7/30/2009 3:22:21 PM

I believe, the point here is not to mention a specific way by wich SB should affect the defense of a shot but to focus in the idea that , in someway, in the GE, SB should have some defensive effect besides the possibility of Shotblock.

I think instead that this is THE question about Shotblocking,how to give a value for this skill in defence(also some giards have good Sb skills,not necessariely is a question of inside defence) without destroy the value of the real defensive skills,ID and OD
And some proposal as "3x1" gave by CrazyEye are wrong just for this motive(destroy the value of defesive skills)

And if you have a player like your 1472 guy, who even don't raises his arm when duncan throws the ball - even if he push him a way from the basket Duncan will score a lot.

It isn't right your reasoning because Sb doesn't have effect on Andersen's defence,but on Duncan's mind because he think:"He is a great shot blocker,it's better to shoot from a little far away".Then Duncan,because is Duncan,will score a lot,but a players like Big Ben wallace,who hasn't offensive movements,will shot worse

There are two ways to increase de value of SB.

1) Reduce his impact on salary. Thus making it cheaper and more interesting to train with his actual effect.

I believe this is a really complex solution when it comes to actual implementation. I see several issues when it comes to this.

2) Increase his effects. This is something I believe BBs were trying to do by increasing the total amount of Shotblocks. But, this doesn't seems to add much more value to SB, because you see a very clear cost when it comes to Salaries but you see very "marginal" effect in performance because there are so few shotblocks that you're always considering to better have 1 more level of ID than SB when it comes to avoid points.

Thus, a pretty interesting idea would be to increase the value of SB through some side-defensive effect. Not like the "3x1" but some kind of mecanism by wich SB skill would traduce into something more valuable than the shotblocks itself. Wich seems to be very unrated.

Last edited by Zero, the Magi. at 7/30/2009 4:33:29 PM

Do you read my proposal(last part of the message (93604.453) )?It goes in the dircetion of second way that you point out
But also with the changes that you wish,it had to be clear that ALWAYS 1 level of ID will be BETTER than a level in SB.Training SB will be effective only for who want to create a more defencsve player,losing something in attack or rebounding

Last edited by Steve Karenn at 7/30/2009 3:58:38 PM

Do you read my proposal(last part of the message (93604.453) )?It goes in the dircetion of second way that you point out
But also with the changes that you wish,it had to be clear that ALWAYS 1 level of ID will be BETTER than a level in SB.Training SB will be effective only for who want to create a more defencsve player,losing something in attack or rebounding

Sure. In terms of only abilities, when ID=SB (and in the vast majority of the cases) 1 more level of ID should be better than 1 level SB. This is another point, because here we enter the discussion of relative difference/absolut difference and marginal performance of skills. For me at least, It is not clear that the marginal performance of a skill should be constant for every level. I'm not sure that BB is written like that either.

Going back to SB. Yes, your proposal might be something. But I'm reluctant to make a specific proposal because I do not know even how actual defense works. Plus, I don't think we should know exactly how that works. That's why I just said there should be some side-defensive mecanism to increase the value of SB. Maybe your proposal could be modeled in some way in the actual GE, but this might not be the only think considered in that model of SB.

And Yes again, training SB should always means a tradeoff between skills. That's why in the vast majority of cases -at least- 1 level of ID should be better than 1 level of SB when it comes to defend a shot that is going to be made after all. The opportunity cost comes in terms of Salary and potential cap.

Last edited by Zero, the Magi. at 7/30/2009 4:35:19 PM

Ok,but these could be the point to start for a discussion on a better role for SB,a marginal skill in confront of ID,IS an REB but that one user can chose to train at a medium level(9-10 on 20)
That's the way,as a great driver without a good shot and passing skill is useless also a great shot blocker without defence,scoring and rebounding is useless

Ok,but these could be the point to start for a discussion on a better role for SB,a marginal skill in confront of ID,IS an REB but that one user can chose to train at a medium level(9-10 on 20)

or i get the importance it had in the salary calculaton, and in my eyes inr eal basketball you can not be a good inside defender without any anticipation for a block^^ It is just a part of defence, but without it you are incomplete.

I believe BB was created to be a multiskill player game. There should be different combinations of skill wich, in a tactical-dependet set, can be effective.

We think that SB in the pure sense of shotblocks is low priority skill in circumstances that there should exist some multiskill combination wich should include a high level of SB in an effective way. What I'm trying to say is that SB must be a skill that should be interesting to train until high levels for some trainers. Currently, is not the case.

We have been having this conversation about the role of SB. In the end, I think that you, CrazyEye and me want SB to be an important skill somehow. Having the terms previously discussed in mind.

I remember BB-Forrest said in this or another thread that He thinks SB should have some effect on the defense of a shot that is going to be made. I asked him if that feature was implemented but I had no answer so I assume it was not.

In europe,where the game is more technical and less physical than in USA,the best defenders note necessariely are good shot blockers
And players like Dennis Rodman and Shane Battier are some of the best defender in the paint without being great shot blockers.SB is the "physical"part of the defence,but a players like Chris Bosh has the physical qualities but 0 appointment and 0 technique so,also if he could be a great shot blocker,is one of the worst defender of all the league
The defence isn't incomplete without shot blocking