BuzzerBeater Forums

I didn't understood what you've meant...

I'll try and give an example (that I think I've already gave...).

Two users sets and auto-bid for an auction that will start at 00:00.
They will set their bids to 5K and not more than 100K (the same for both).

Let's say that each bid should be with 5K from the previous bid, just for convenient.

The auction starts.
At 00:00 the system calculates who should get the last bid between the auto-biders.
Let's say that it is user-A, and this means that the current bid is 95K.

Now the bid-war is free to all.
In case a user put it's bid before 00:01:30, then the auto-bid is over, and the auction is only against the online bidders (unless another user will put a new auto-bid).
Let's say no one had put a new bid until that time, so now it is user-B turn to put its last bid (100K).

Another suggestion that could be added to satisfy the online biders (although I think that there is no reason to do so, as the game is BB managing, as I already wrote) is to define half of the auctions to allow auto-bids and the other half not...

Again, I believe that this game is not about live auctions but about BB managing.
As such, an auto-bid system is an necessity, and in my opinion all auction should be such.

We understood your point about 25 posts ago. Mind understanding ours?

You try to set up a completely different bidding / auctioning system, and while it is not a completely uninteresting concept, you still fail to convince even the majority in the thread. It´s a completely different approach with pros and contras. And while the new system might be interesting to some degree, it fails to be a clear "advantage" over the old one. So why bothering with such a huge change when the "new system" is only different, but not flat out better?

1) As I've wrote, I didn't understood your previous message, so how could I relate to it?
And besides that, yours POV also had been written (much) more than once.

2) I will guess that the majority who uses the forum are those who have time...
So, majority here does not play a part.
Regardless to that, the results are very close - 20 against, 17 in favor (6 of them finding it less important then other things).
Moreover, as this system is unfair to those who has much less time, we cannot say how many users left the game due to that.

3) As I've wrote, setting half the auctions to allow auto-bids gives both sides an answer to their favor auction type.

4) Basically your saying -
I'm in favor of A.
Currently the auction is defined to be A, and there is no advantage of one over the other.
So let's keep with my favor auction system - A...
Doesn't sounds right or fair...

5) When setting only auto-bid system, the online user could go to bid-war from the last auto-bid.
As you said once (and I didn't agree), "it is all about wanting a player, the price is not an issue" (something not far from this), so you can continue the bid-war from that point with no pros...

Last edited by Pini פיני at 10/21/2011 11:43:54 AM

Again, there is no reason to give an advantage to those who can play it whenever they can, and by that chasing away all others that are the majority of users.

Giving advantage to those who are willing to spend some time is IMO actually a pretty good approach. And in no way does the transfer list system chase away the majority of users. There is a good supply of most types of players at almost any given time. Either you can find a good player that has his deadline closing when you are online, or you can check for players three days in advance. You can go into bid war right away, or plan ahead for the next time you log in. Doesn't sound too hostile against the majority to me.

For the absolute top teams, or for managers that want something really special, the market is of course harder to play. I see no issue with the really top talent being difficult to find and get. I am not sure if getting the top talent would on average get easier with auto-bidding. On the other hand, I am quite sure that the be-online-or-pay-what-you-have approach at least adds one element over the just-bid-your-highest approach of auto-bidding.

Let's get back to the majority of users here. What usually helps keep them in the game is keeping things simple. In BuzzerBeater's transfer market simplicity rules. All bids are final, and you bid what you want to pay. Any change to this system would only make things more complicated. You can argue that an auto-bid system is not that difficult and you would be right saying so. But it would still be more complicated than the current system. Taking that step would require some clear improvement, which I don't believe has been demonstrated with this suggestion (or the countless identical ones before this). There are opinions and preferences, yes, but these are not very factual.

Of course, I too have "lost" very good players (some highly unique even) because I was not online when the bidding ended. Tough luck I say. And I will never know if auto-bidding would actually have won me any of those "lost" players.

I will need to repeat my answers I've wrote here at previous messages on this thread.

1) The game is about BB managing and not about testing how much can you play it all over the clock.

2) It is chasing other users, because they have no chance to compete fairly against those who just have more time.
Again - more time does not equal more skill as a BB manager.
It doesn't matter whether they loose only one out of 10 or even more, it is just unfair and un-competetive for them.

3) It doesn't makes it more complicated for the user.
They're still can continue with the online bidding!

4) Basically you are saying one thing and the opposite as well. you are saying:
a) "Online bidding does not give too much advantage to those who can afford getting online whenever they want."
b) "I've lost a player due to that I couldn't get online when the auction started".
In case (a) is true, than why not having the auto-bid, as it will not change much?
In case you are sticking with (b), then why being unfair and competetive to those who can't get online whenever they want.

Summarizing - a potential user for this game can probably connect up to 2 hours every evening and maybe here and there.
And even this is a lot.
This gives him only 1 out of 12 of all potential players by definition.
It makes the game unfair, and one that he cannot compete.
Due to that I guess more than one had left the game.

In one line - this game is about BB managing. It is not about how much do you will to turn your life just to play the game.

They will set their bids to 5K and not more than 100K (the same for both).

ugly example cause this will make bidding normal, after the autobid and does not impact the old bidding system, in this game it was like an auction start at 100k.

The auction starts.
At 00:00 the system calculates who should get the last bid between the auto-biders.
Let's say that it is user-A, and this means that the current bid is 95K.

like seelenjaeger explained you much more before, that should be done as soon as the second auto bid comes that makes progressing easier and is also better for other buyers or sellers. In my the big advatage of an autobidding game is that bidding would be starting earlier and not always in last second. This way it get even more frustrating for the normal bidders who maybe take their time and bid to 85k

In case a user put it's bid before 00:01:30, then the auto-bid is over, and the auction is only against the online bidders (unless another user will put a new auto-bid).

ok like that it is acceptable for the normal bidders, cause the player is already run out till the first auto bid so it is like today ;) But if you meant 23:58:30 the autobid makes no sense and people will complain when the player they wanted to buy for up to 100k ended with 45k.

he other possibility which was your late proposal that the system wait 1:30, i like to talk through at a more realistic transfer. Let say the bid is at 400k and normally you get those players betwenn 500k and 800k, so maybe the online bidder can go fdirectly for 500k but when he want it cheap maybe he makes always the minimum step. Tbut the autobidder want it on any price and put 1.000k in. Now the online bidder fights against a maschine, maybe even not knowing that it is a maschine - which don't makes fault isn't affected to bidwar strategies and wasted only time.

Another suggestion that could be added to satisfy the online biders (although I think that there is no reason to do so, as the game is BB managing, as I already wrote) is to define half of the auctions to allow auto-bids and the other half not...

very cool suggestion, pretty sure the manager are happy, when maybe some bidder don't go for it cause they can not use the option. Also the managers who like to buy a specific player, and expect those options are unsatisfied.

Again, I believe that this game is not about live auctions but about BB managing.

trading and negoations are part of managing first off all, and a normal team don't need to make so much transfers. I maybe do 2-4 serious transfer a season, at low level that number is higher but you find also fitting players "every" hour and don't need to look so much into the future.

I stay with it one or another, which one is pretty equal for me ... So i would pragmatically say, no need to overhaul something which is working as good.

4) Basically you are saying one thing and the opposite as well. you are saying:
a) "Online bidding does not give too much advantage to those who can afford getting online whenever they want."
b) "I've lost a player due to that I couldn't get online when the auction started".

he also said, that the amount of avaible player at the elite is lower and even there you can spend maybe 200k more and make the bid early to get him. I even got succes with a low early bid.

Summarizing - a potential user for this game can probably connect up to 2 hours every evening and maybe here and there.
And even this is a lot.

in this period of time an average user can find 2 players, at the "average" level.

Summarizing - a potential user for this game can probably connect up to 2 hours every evening and maybe here and there.
And even this is a lot.
This gives him only 1 out of 12 of all potential players by definition.

this would be important if he need all 120 players who running out the day/week, and not just one ;) You say it is about managing, but in this dimension it would be about trading. Even with an auto bid, he would normally just get one extra player when he buy for his team, and not extra 110 cause he wouldn't bid on any of them. I just impli that more then one player run out every two hours, and/or you normally have a bit time to get one.

Due to that I guess more than one had left the game.

i think the duration of bidding war, is probadly more a reason to left the game, then the fact that you can not own every player cause you are not online to buy all. And yes there it helps, but it also destroy the fun for them who like those wars.

In one line - this game is about BB managing.

i though online implies to be online.

They will set their bids to 5K and not more than 100K (the same for both).

ugly example cause this will make bidding normal, after the autobid and does not impact the old bidding system, in this game it was like an auction start at 100k.

No, it will not.
1) It will give the auto-bidder an opportunity to be part of auctions they couldn't have otherwise (unless they will bid 100K from start).
2) No one says that all auto-biders will put their max bidding to be the same.
3) Yes, the auction is not only for auto-bidders, and will be open to online users as well.
The inline users does not lose from this situation, because upon your approach those auto-biders would have used their 100K from start in current system.

The auction starts.
At 00:00 the system calculates who should get the last bid between the auto-biders.
Let's say that it is user-A, and this means that the current bid is 95K.

like seelenjaeger explained you much more before, that should be done as soon as the second auto bid comes that makes progressing easier and is also better for other buyers or sellers. In my the big advatage of an autobidding game is that bidding would be starting earlier and not always in last second. This way it get even more frustrating for the normal bidders who maybe take their time and bid to 85k

Again, I'm not sure whether I understood you correctly, but what you have just said is purely against the theory you gave about putting the max amount from start.
What is the difference for those onlie bidders whether we are in the current system and those who couldn't get online just used there max amount (100K in this example) as their bid, or whether it was an auto-bid that went up to the max bid at 100K?
I think that by your question and my answer I've found another another point that supports the auto-bidding system.

In case a user put it's bid before 00:01:30, then the auto-bid is over, and the auction is only against the online bidders (unless another user will put a new auto-bid).

ok like that it is acceptable for the normal bidders, cause the player is already run out till the first auto bid so it is like today ;) But if you meant 23:58:30 the autobid makes no sense and people will complain when the player they wanted to buy for up to 100k ended with 45k.

Great, this is the purpose of this discussion. To find a solution that is best for all (or at least for most) users.

The other possibility which was your late proposal that the system wait 1:30, i like to talk through at a more realistic transfer.

Currently the most expensive player I bought cost me 310K, and most players cost me much less.
So for me it was kind of realistic, but it is not realy important for our discussion.

Let say the bid is at 400k and normally you get those players betwenn 500k and 800k, so maybe the online bidder can go directly for 500k but when he want it cheap maybe he makes always the minimum step. Tbut the autobidder want it on any price and put 1.000k in. Now the online bidder fights against a maschine, maybe even not knowing that it is a maschine - which don't makes fault isn't affected to bidwar strategies and wasted only time.

There is no sense for a bid-war against a machine (auto-bidding).
This is why I suggested that up to the last auto-bid value it will just be bidding from the auto-bidders and will run fast (will not wait between one auto-bid and the next).
Than, the online bidder can continue and be part of a regular bid-war in case he finds the price right...

Last edited by Pini פיני at 10/21/2011 5:44:48 PM

4) Basically you are saying one thing and the opposite as well. you are saying:
a) "Online bidding does not give too much advantage to those who can afford getting online whenever they want."
b) "I've lost a player due to that I couldn't get online when the auction started".

Those are not exact quotes by me. Anyway, there is no discrepancy. Firstly, I claim the average user is not significantly more likely to get a good deal on a great player with auto-bidding than with the current bid system. There are enough players to go around, you don't need to get exactly that one player whose auction ends at an inconvenient time. The perceived advantage of being online gets bigger the closer to the top the players (and therefore the teams interested in these players) are.

I most certainly have "lost" players due to not being online, because I was not willing to make my best possible bid right off the bat. There is a reason for the quotation marks, though. I have no way of knowing if an auto-bid would have helped me in any way. If one is hesitant in making their best bid, what makes one auto-bid with confidence. The eBay style auction basically promises a good chance of finding a buyer for the seller and the lowest possible winning bid for the buyer. This is not a goal for the BuzzerBeater transfer system.

This gives him only 1 out of 12 of all potential players by definition.
It makes the game unfair, and one that he cannot compete.

I don't agree with your conclusion. The number of players and the number of teams is sufficiently high to even things out. You can either get a player who has almost the same skill set (perhaps with a less cool name and a worse haircut) at the same price, or wait a few more days to get in all practical terms an identical deal. Like I said, it is a bit different for the elite. That is a small group however. Just for the record, I don't even consider myself part of the absolute top in this game, and my team has not exactly been rubbish in the long term with a current world rank of 15th.

Again - more time does not equal more skill as a BB manager.

I would say the oposite. A manager who is more active, reading the forum, suffling the transfer list, analyzing games and different tactics, scouting opponents, testing different players etc will be a better manager just because he puts more time in.

Summarizing - a potential user for this game can probably connect up to 2 hours every evening and maybe here and there.
And even this is a lot.
This gives him only 1 out of 12 of all potential players by definition.
It makes the game unfair, and one that he cannot compete.

As already stated gazillion times, everyone can bid. Bid max that you are willing to pay if you want the player. Just like with selling players, put in the starting price you are willing to sell the player for. If the player sells at that price, don't come crying that you wanted more. This bidding system has helped me to acquire my recend argentinian SF. I was almost ready to buy a weaker player for more money. Could not be online and did not bid my max money on him. So I got a better player with smaller salary just because I could not be online at one time and was not really willing to commit to blind bid. I'm already seeing the bug thread overflown with bugs of "why did not my autobid work" etc. Like said before, it will drive the prices up. I prefer people purchasing their players by themself. It's really not so much to ask for a few transfers a month. Guys who switch their lineup more are either rebuilding, daytraders or wannabe daytraders:) Believe me noone is quitting over current bid system.

Last edited by Kukoc at 10/21/2011 3:50:38 PM

Another suggestion that could be added to satisfy the online biders (although I think that there is no reason to do so, as the game is BB managing, as I already wrote) is to define half of the auctions to allow auto-bids and the other half not...

very cool suggestion, pretty sure the manager are happy, when maybe some bidder don't go for it cause they can not use the option. Also the managers who like to buy a specific player, and expect those options are unsatisfied.

Did not understood your sarcasm.
This option that I less prefer (again, I believe auto-bid is needed to be supported on all auctions), is a compromise that gives both types of users to enjoy part of their prefered auction system.

Again, I believe that this game is not about live auctions but about BB managing.

trading and negoations are part of managing first off all, and a normal team don't need to make so much transfers. I maybe do 2-4 serious transfer a season, at low level that number is higher but you find also fitting players "every" hour and don't need to look so much into the future.

Trading and negotiating does not mean who can be online to sign a deal whenever the other side wants to.
The player seeks for the best deal not who is willing to sign at 4AM.

I stay with it one or another, which one is pretty equal for me ... So i would pragmatically say, no need to overhaul something which is working as good.

Here you are saying something else entirely.
You claim here that you have no problem with the auto-bid system, and just that it is a waste of time and there are other issues that are much more important.
Well, in this case - there enough who finds it important so it seems something worth entering sooner than later...