BuzzerBeater Forums

@augus:

Since running offense with 4-inside bigs is impossible

Who said this? Two of them need high OD to defend guards. Some teams/countries have so high IS-guards, that you could let them play as PFs. if I remember correctly, your countryman Dionysus won with this strategy his BBB trophy. His guards were inside beasts.

outside attacks combined with 3-2 zone like 3 shooting monsters + 2 JS+ID+SB+RB bigs?

That was my first intention too. And that is also the way most managers play it. The three outside shooters and your two bigs will be a force, BUT they will be one dimensional. Two maximize their power, you have to play an outside offense. Hello GDP. And if your opponent isn't blind, he/she will see that your bigs aren't an inside threat. And from here there isn't a big way to a 1-3-1 defense. And 1-3-1 + right GDP has a lot of power. I had my biggest problem always against this combination.

Sadly, SB and JR are the keys of this kind of lineup but also the fewest ones people would like to train

(36936952) JR of a guard, SB of a big
I need two seasons to finish him. Unfortunately he was 19 y/o at his draft... But hrudey is also one of us freaks ;) who trains such guys. I'm eager to see what he can do with his players.

@Ronaldo Filho:
Yes, I read your post from the SB/m2m thread. And I think FCP is a nice defense. And the reason why almost no one tries it is that you need all four defense skills (OD,ID,Sb, Stamina). Everyone talks only about the steals and turnovers. That is too narrow minded. You have to expand the idea of defense further and take blocks into account too.
What happens if you play FCP? You build up pressure on your opponent. How can this happen? OD receives a huge boost, but it costs you a lot of stamina. With the bossted OD you can force your opponent to turnovers. But not every action end with a turnover. The oppoent still takes shots and tries to score. And from this point on you need SB. (Here start my theory and I'm currently working on finding out if I'm right.) The high OD brings the opponent in a bad shooting position. As soon as your opponent takes the shot, it is far easier to block it. In season 27, I ran four small tests with my defense trainees.
(68686903)
(68686908)
(71934974)
(71934982)

The summary of my S5 for these four games:
PG (Zejun): OD 14, ID 14 and SB 15 --> 7 Steals and 13 Blocks
SG (Nahit): OD 14, ID 2 and SB 3/4 --> 17 Steals and 0 Blocks
SF (Kiebitz): OD 14, ID 6 and SB 6 --> 10 Steals and 6 Blocks
PF (Haek): OD 16, ID 16 and SB 18 --> 15 Steals and 14 Blocks
C (Sutherland): OD 1, ID 17 and SB 18 --> 7 Steals and 20 Blocks ***

***was injured in game 3 and his back up with OD 2, ID 13 and SB 13 had 2 steals and 8 blocks.
(the results are crap, my team wasn't suited for such games)

As you can see, Haek was a monster with 15 stls and 14 blocks. Sutherland blocked 20 shots in a little more than three games. My PG was too weak (only 7 steals) but had a huge impact with 13 blocks. On the other hand, my SG who had almost no SB couldn't block a single shot. Now imagine what you can do with a team, full of well rounded defenders, high stamina and a FCP... That's exactly what I started and going to find out in Utopia (291779.1).

Last edited by Nachtmahr at 2/15/2018 1:46:50 PM

Sadly, SB and JR are the keys of this kind of lineup but also the fewest ones people would like to train

(36936952) JR of a guard, SB of a big
I need two seasons to finish him. Unfortunately he was 19 y/o at his draft... But hrudey is also one of us freaks ;) who trains such guys. I'm eager to see what he can do with his players.

Well, if this season is any indication, my best-case scenario in a few seasons is winning games 35-33. I've played 3-2 pretty much every game, with the C position always being manned by a second-season trainee (two are 20, one 19), and the PF starter is far from superb. Plus my guards' OD is not really excellent either. So naturally I'm still leading the league in points allowed and that's even with actually playing fast offenses pretty much all the time.

I'm still not sure if the big men will ever get any JR or even JS training for me. I may try to mix in some seasons of outside shooting for PF/C when I'm close to cap levels, just because I refuse to add IS or DR or PA. If only projects like this didn't take actual years, I might someday try to do this without keeping one draftee in each group of three trainees despite them not being nearly as good as the other two trainees for what I want to do.

Gotcha!

That's it about FCP. The SB to outside players make a big difference.

I will follow your link. We talk more about in bb-mail and change xp.


About against 3-2,

Only offensive tatics don't make advantage wthout analysis of opponent the "discovery" his outsiders skills and look to your players.

Patient? Motion? Run'n'Gun? Whatever.

I think what everyone said here, we speak in a general way. But there are exceptions. If you do a good analysis you will be able to hit your opponent.

In Utopia I started building a SF around 14 seasons ago. He was a Pot 6 player and I went for a maximum of offense. JS 15, JR 15, HA 16, DR 17 and IS 15. This guy, Ethan Logan (34207739) was just a trainee who received the same training. When the Pot 6 capped, I bought a C and trained him. Ethan Logan was again just a second trainee. But he trained so well, that he capped at 119 TSP as a Pot 7 player. In the end he had JS, JR, HA, DR, PA, IS, ID and SB. He was for three consecutive seasons the best blocker in Utopia and scored 3ptrs on a high percentage. And here the idea for the new build was clear.
An inside defender who can be an option in every kind of offense. The biggest problem for such a build is RB. I searched for a RB 1 player with at least 200cm height. There was luckily one player on the TL and noone wanted him. Now he is at 126 TSP, still training and I only need four more ups in IS until he reaches the target skill set. And his RB is luckily at 5, so I have still some capspace left.

But it is clear, like Sentinel wrote, besides him you need a first class inside defender with a lot of RB.

I will tell You how I would beat 3-2 zone in real basketball:
1. Do not let zone to be set. That's the crucial point. Fastbreaks and great transition offence is the best way to destroy defense, because unless zone is really great defenders will automatically try to defence their part of court and not the guy with ball.
2. Passing! Fast and good passes can destroy every zone.

Maybe someone is able to transform this into BB.

Yes, it is fun to read how some teams that have never won anything believe that they have a priceless secret.

I've learned from both of them several years ago, so it was not a priceless secret. They talked about it on the forum, I've just read their posts and said to myself "ok, let's try to build a team that way".

Now my team is build, I'm ranked top 5 WR since a long time now (even If I've no chance to win B3) and I have 3 titles in a row in my country (the level is high in our country if we compare WR & recent results in B3). I'm only in the middle of my good team period so I'll probably add more titles.

So you can definitly win something with a good 3-2 zone.