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so maybe it the difference betwen promoting in Ii and II league, too. because most of the promoted teams in my league are surprised about their weekly balance - and i don't think that they get that much less when demoting again but i could ask opalla about it but till now i didn't ehard something in this direction.

Thanks for your interest.

My information about fans drop in teams demoting from Serie A to II serie in Italy is that it has similar order of magnitude as my demotion (from III to IV). In a few words, the system currently gives a good prize for promoting teams but it is unforgiving about demotions.

Consider, however, that the additional money that newly promoted teams got last year was not so much in terms of purchasing power given the high inflation: players I had to buy to try not to be demoted currently have lower prices (and they got some training last year).

Honestly Giona I think that it could be acceptable the duty you've to pay for relegation cause everyone must try to fight till the end to not be relegated; I did it last season and I'll never chose again to be relegated, the focus of the matter is that in our case in serie A there are always the same teams and often the teams coming from IInd division go back immediately because the difference between the 2 divs is very high and the 1m bonus is not enough to make your team stronger.

Thanks for your point of view and also thanks to Josef.

I'm not sure if I'll be able to survive, but I'm convinced that this state of affairs will lead to an even more stable structure of divisions. Since demotion is so severely penalizing the managers will have to think twice before promoting, because they risk an immediate demotion if they are not strong enough (in terms of team quality and economical resources). Demoted teams will have a very hard time achieving an immediate promotion back to their previous division, due to possible financial problems.

I don't know if the game becomes more interesting in this way (can we call this phenomenon 'fan deflation' or 'fan recession'?)... time will tell, and I'd look at actual data to have an answer. Personally I won't dismantle the team and I'll try to get back immediately.

P.S. @ned: I fought until the end to avoid relegation, but I really had no chance in my conference: I demoted with 8 victories, in the other conference I would have been probably safe...

managers will have to think twice before promoting

Exactly! I've written about it some posts ago, some managers prefer to win the tournament and lose the final match to be promoted.

I'd ask the community to think about what that percentage should be. For reference, remember 4/16=25% of teams demote every season, and so a guess of 25% would mean that newly promoted teams were just as likely as the average D1 team to demote. I would posit that the ideal percentage should be higher than that... but how much higher is an open question.. what do you think?

My short answer is 50%. Newly promoted teams should expect to be less competitive than those who made the playoff, but about as competitive as those who ended in 5th and 6th position (supposing the latter won the playout).
But the long answer is much more complex. This 50% is only valid if the league has reached an equilibrium (not too much difference between teams) and if there are not too many teams turning into bots (or relegating on purpose, like in the italian serie A last season).
For the lowest divisions my answer would probably be less than 25%.

managers will have to think twice before promoting

Exactly! I've written about it some posts ago, some managers prefer to win the tournament and lose the final match to be promoted.

I would like to hear from a BB about this. My impression is that a promotion followed by a demotion brings more money to that team than no promotion/demotion. I might be wrong though.
For what counts, in my league, in the last three seasons there were two teams able to promote again, after such a promotion/relegation pattern.

from my personal opinion I don't think so and if the system is well balanced in the best case you can close with a draw. I will not promoted this season (as you probably know :p) but if I would do that I've more than one doubt that my fans will be more than 4k as I had last season before to go back in second. Why you don't try?

My impression is that a promotion followed by a demotion brings more money to that team than no promotion/demotion. I might be wrong though.

In absolute terms, counting only the cash flow in the two years (the one after the promotion and the one after demotion) maybe you are right, but do not forget the drop in the number of supporters that is so severe that I'm afraid will have consequences that go beyond this two year time frame.

i can understand your frustration because your question is very simple and people are giving you 100000 different answers bar an answer to your question...

your question as quoted by you is as follows; "The question was "even by following these rules-of-the-thumb can a new player make it to the top two series in a reasonably large country?".

i am not sure what kind off answer you are expecting. because I think you know the answer to this question yourself...

In a fast growing game like BB off course it will be harder and harder to make it to the top 2 leagues in any country. More members means more teams trying to get to the top 2 leagues and with only 1 team getting promoted in a season it will get harder and harder.

Secondly there are teams that are since season 1 playing this game, they do have a benefit. In my opinion a huge benefit. When I might draw a comparison to hattrick. I dont think many new teams make it to the top 3 leagues in a reasonable amount off time.

I am not moaning because I was kind off lucky and started in season 3 and I am playing in a quite inactive league and thirdly I have no clue how you could resolve these issues. It is good you put this forward, but do you have a solution??

Ooooh i wanted to add 1 thing. Yes prices for players are very very high for the very good players. And I would expect them to go up even more and more season after season. It is an open market and I have seen very very few balanced players in general let alone players that are good enough to be SF. Even if the amount off coaches would double, i dont think good trained players will double. But the demand will double. So the prices go up. I cant see any solution to stop this.



Last edited by Astragoth at 1/3/2010 3:08:46 PM