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Please let high stamina players have some rest in each qt.

This is a must have if exhaustion continues. It will end up punishing teams with high stamina players even if they have backups/reserves. Others will face the same case as you were their players all get exhausted at the same time. As you mentioned it is dumb that coaches attempt to play starters 40+ minutes in many situations when this is obviously not optimal for game shape.

For me its good news for the implemmention, and for the fight against 5 man going for 48 minutes. Its not realistic either, you don't get to say the word only when its comfortable for you.

It is good news for the abstract idea that short rosters should not be viable, not for this particular implementation itself.

I support the idea and I too believe the end game scores are fine, mostly. I terribly dislike the implementation and those hilarious 4-th quarters, as thought the players were just switched off. There are way better ways to achieve the same (or better) end result here.


Last edited by GM-Perpete at 3/29/2022 5:57:12 AM

It already made no sense that high stamina players didn't get subbed at all because of their stamina. But now it's even worse since they all get exhausted in the beginning of the 4th. And we've seen how huge the impact of exhaustion is.

This is the number one problem indeed.

A player does not get even a little tired for three quarters and all of a sudden he literally can't move his feet. Parody.

If this lousy implementation is to stay, there are at least three separate prerequisites:

1) Fix substitution patterns in order to have players at starter/backup/reserve compared on their actual efficiency atm.
2) Keep players on court even if they are exhausted in case they have no backup/reserve set.
3) Improve player performance under exhaustion. Right now it looks like after becoming exhausted (!suddenly!) they start being treated as lucky fans. Imo the exhaustion performance level should be based on player skills and not be less than 30% of the maximum values. I'd be happy to elaborate.

If this lousy implementation is to stay

Much better to get rid of it ofc and substitute it with faster and deeper stamina decay, especially at higher stamina levels, possibly accompanied by tiered GS decrease after psychologist based on minutes played in the b3/bbm game.

Besides I'm pretty sure that a:

250k/250k/200k/200k/250k + 100k + 7k + 7k + 7k + 7k short roster

would still beat a:

150k/150k/150k/150k/150k + 125k + 100k + 78k + 100k + 125k roster

under this implementation.


Meaning that it does not actually work at all. It's just that people have not yet figured it out and found ways around it.


@Justin: I'd be happy if you ran some simulations on this and let us know what the results were.

Have you took into consideration "keeping game in emotions until 4th quarter" effect, which exist especially in top games like PO, finals etc. I think it has bigger impact on course of most quoted games than exhaustion of players.

But you see, this is a lot of changes for a person that doesn't like nor want changing the fandamentals of BB.
But I feel like you shouldn't say such things against Marin, who, after all, was basically the only one in charge of BB for a long long time, and im not sure if BB would survive at all without him.

I agree, you are right about that. No matter what, it should not get personal and I apologize for that part of the posts.

On the other game - We see a manager that is trying to overcome the exhaustion effect and he is completely punished for that, this is how 5 players squad will perform(one of his starters was injured early on so he was left with 5 players).

not to mention his 5 players have all 30+ years old.
basketball drains a lot of energy. IRL there is no player getting 48 minutes on a constant basis. actually even 40 minutes is not common at all. tom thibodeau used to play his starters around 40 minutes every game with the bulls, as a result his players were destroyed in the mid term (to name a few: Deng, Noah and the most infamous case of all, Rose). I hate injuries in BB but I might acknowledge that if there was a link in BB between excess of minutes and higher chance of injuries I would say it's logical and realistic (those who enjoy injuries in BB due to being realistic and a challenge couldn't deny this...)

what is not realistic in BB (and never was) is players playing 48 minutes every game. 5-6 player rosters being competitive and winning championships is way less realistic than teams being crushed in the last quarter because their players didn't get a single second of rest in the 3 previous quarters. so far I give exhaustion a big thumbs up

btw I'd go further. I'd establish that after a certain age players cannot play more than a certain amount of minutes. 33 year olds playing 48 minutes? no way. 33 year olds should have a threshold of 34 minutes or something (with max stamina). Even 28 year olds should cap at around 42 minutes. (For the sake of BBness, youngsters of course could play 48 minutes and get training). Managers should be faced with the obligation of having players to fill those minutes their starters won't play.

Last edited by Bernspin at 3/24/2022 4:18:04 PM