BuzzerBeater Forums

Just to prove a point I went motion tonight. See: (25684272). Big surprise, my SF leads the way in scoring. He also picks up 5 assists. And actually, looking at the match-ups this seems like an off night for him on this occasion. You may also be surprised to know that his jump shot is not that high. And his jump range surely would not meet your requirements.

In any case, we probably will never agree on what a motion does, mostly because you insist that run and gun SFs are the cat's meow.

Last edited by HeadPaperPusher at 9/3/2010 10:43:01 PM

An outside SF for an NT should have at least a 15/16-12 Js-Jr

And I am pretty sure how this player's passing and handling would look inside your mind. I personally would take that 15-16 jump shot, but transfer 3 levels of that jump range training to something that would allow more flexibility on offense (or even defense).

But we can all have our personal preferences, right? ;-)

I know I am a bit off topic but I want to say something about pf and outside tactics.

I've got a pf with 11 JS and 7 JR, not great I know, but I think would be enough to exploit the opposition pf's OD in my league. At first I was thinking exactly the same thing like you and tried motion. (My pg, sg and sf all have passing >/= 8.) But every time I play motion he just doesn't took that many shots from outside and the FG% is more or less 20-40. I can only get him "work" by playing RnG. Now he averages close to 50% in FG and 3FG. Besides, I found that my team is actually able to divert a bit more shots to my pf when he dominates from outside by playing RnG. This completely changes my understanding of RnG and motion and make me believes that if my guards passing is high enough RnG can still exploit the matchups. I have never tried princeton though because I have some pretty bad experience with it. I want to try patient more in future games.

Mind you. Josef once said something like motion is like 3 little man playing with each other and shooting from outside. RnG is your whole team throwing everything they can from outside.

You will have to give me examples. I started looking at your games and it is funny that the first one I saw was: (23332410). ;-)

My guess is you got this one backwards:

Mind you. Josef once said something like motion is like 3 little man playing with each other and shooting from outside. RnG is your whole team throwing everything they can from outside.

PF and C are pretty much out in a run and gun.

You will have to give me examples. I started looking at your games and it is funny that the first one I saw was: (23332410). ;-)

My guess is you got this one backwards:

Mind you. Josef once said something like motion is like 3 little man playing with each other and shooting from outside. RnG is your whole team throwing everything they can from outside.

PF and C are pretty much out in a run and gun.

Ok I have done a bit of number crunching for all his games in pf when I play RnG and motion. These games include league, cup and private games.

Motion
[7 game] [33.7 min/game] [0.35 pt/min] [45.3% FG] [38.9% 3FG]

RnG
[9 game] [32.2 min/game] [0.51 pt/min] [46.9% FG] [48.3% 3FG]

What annoys me most is against very poor opposition he simply didn't take as many as shots as I would like when I played motion:
(23332437)(25708341)(23332421)
14 shots only in 85 min left me scratching my head.

Where in RnG I am guaranteed at least 9 shots in 36 min in those 9 games.

Last edited by 7ton at 9/4/2010 2:51:36 AM

So,It's not a question of"how much important is rebound",but is a question"how much I can remove from the other skills training to give him rebound?".And you often have to face the potential cap

would you say the same about js? or od? or id? guess no.

Just to prove a point I went motion tonight. See: (25684272). Big surprise, my SF leads the way in scoring. He also picks up 5 assists. And actually, looking at the match-ups this seems like an off night for him on this occasion. You may also be surprised to know that his jump shot is not that high. And his jump range surely would not meet your requirements.

In any case, we probably will never agree on what a motion does, mostly because you insist that run and gun SFs are the cat's meow.

Often happens that the SF is the main focus of motion.But that's not the point.The point is to understand how R&G and motion distirbute the shots
Motion has more flexibility about the choice of the focus of the attack,as also your game says.You and your adversary have very diferent distributions of the shots,using the same tactic,because you have different strenghts and weaknesses
With R&G,no matter what are your abilities,the focus is almost ever on the same roles
This fact gives you advantages and disadvantages.If you have your strenghts in the positions that R&G distribution "likes" the most,it gives you strong advantages toward motion,because R&G have a more selective focus,but if you find a team that can fight your PG-SG and SF,motion give you a possibility to go beyond this obstacle.
It's a choice depending on the characteristics of your team

P.S. about IS-JR choice for the training of an outside SF,I think depends a lot if those 3 levels in IS instead of JR really give him flexibility on offensive field.If you have a 15-9-7(JS-JR-IS) and you decide to give him 3 levels in Is (15-9-10),you don't raise so much his versatility on offensive field,because the adversary defences could don't worry so much about a 10 in IS( because they have an inside SF),and your player would not have a so realtively strong primary attack
If your player is 15-9-10,giving him the 3 levels in IS raise a lot his offensive flexibility because 13 in IS is a value that the adversary defence can't undervalue,so you give him much more doubts on defensive choices,and you can use it as a great advantage

Last edited by Steve Karenn at 9/4/2010 11:19:37 AM

Just to prove a point I went motion tonight. See: (25684272). Big surprise, my SF leads the way in scoring. He also picks up 5 assists. And actually, looking at the match-ups this seems like an off night for him on this occasion. You may also be surprised to know that his jump shot is not that high. And his jump range surely would not meet your requirements.

In any case, we probably will never agree on what a motion does, mostly because you insist that run and gun SFs are the cat's meow.

Often happens that the SF is the main focus of motion.But that's not the point.The point is to understand how R&G and motion distirbute the shots
Motion has more flexibility about the choice of the focus of the attack,as also your game says.You and your adversary have very diferent distributions of the shots,using the same tactic,because you have different strenghts and weaknesses
With R&G,no matter what are your abilities,the focus is almost ever on the same roles
This fact gives you advantages and disadvantages.If you have your strenghts in the positions that R&G distribution "likes" the most,it gives you strong advantages toward motion,because R&G have a more selective focus,but if you find a team that can fight your PG-SG and SF,motion give you a possibility to go beyond this obstacle.
It's a choice depending on the characteristics of your team

As I said I used to believe motion distributes the shots better but now I doubt if there is much difference. The pg and sg don't have to be the show man with RnG. Using tonight's game I just played as an example.(23332530) In this game I played a sg with poor outside shooting and passing and my pg has inept game shape. My sf, pf and even my C (to a lesser extent) were much better outside shooters. And guess what? Did my pg and sg ignore my better outside shooters and took the shots? Out of 93 shots only 19 were made by them (20.4%). With RnG which positions they play is not the most important, it's still the matchups. It's become a myth that RnG distribute shots to other positions poorly.

Last edited by 7ton at 9/4/2010 12:32:36 PM

Are you sure that Fecri didn't shoot a lot of tap-in,as he take a lot of offensive rebounds?He is the only player that shoot more than the expected(with the poor skills of your guards and the Sfs that had to take 1/3 of the total shots),but tap-in should be the solution

Pg is a less important offensive option than Sf in a R&G

Last edited by Steve Karenn at 9/4/2010 1:49:06 PM

Are you sure that Fecri didn't shoot a lot of tap-in,as he take a lot of offensive rebounds?He is the only player that shoot more than the expected(with the poor skills of your guards and the Sfs that had to take 1/3 of the total shots),but tap-in should be the solution

Pg is a less important offensive option than Sf in a R&G

Yes he made like 10 tap-ins and missed all of them!!! But that's not important. It just proves that he got those points from outside shooting. You said pg is less important. How about sg? My sf shooted more than both my pg and sg combined together, and pf more than either one of them, and C, still more than them, even if you take away the tap-ins. 19 shots out of 83 is still way too low (22.9%). Doesn't it tell you something?

Last edited by 7ton at 9/5/2010 5:35:05 AM