BuzzerBeater Forums

You are following some of the concepts that lead Chile to World Championship last season, specially the community related work (And we don't even have half of the users in the Czech community).

Our experience show us that while secondaries are important, you don't need a full set of players with secondaries at high level and top primaries to succed.

In my experiencie as NTM and later working in other process as staff member, the most important thing is to have an organized community working towards a common goal, like winning a World Cup. In that sense, you don't need people with nationalistic feelings(wich are always welcome for this purposes) but people trying to achieve something just because they want to. There are incentives for NT training in the form of merchandising and higher selling value(again because of merch) but another key aspect to enroll someone in NT training is to add *community value*. When that user recieves support from other users for his great work on X player or recieves some critics for not taking good care of his GS things are entirely different.

And while all this discussion seems to be highly focused on NT players, serious tactical work behind every decision is another important factor to succed at top level. A good team behind this is an essencial key.

Sometimes you can't have the best players and you only a have a bunch of the good ones, but working other aspects and trying to excell in those areas seems also to work.

Last edited by Zero, the Magi. at 2/22/2011 8:42:15 AM

There are incentives for NT training in the form of merchandising and higher selling value(again because of merch) but another key aspect to enroll someone in NT training is to add *community value*. When that user recieves support from other users for his great work on X player or recieves some critics for not taking good care of his GS things are entirely different.

The main problem in our country at the moment is that about half of teams in Div I has no NT player or NT prospects. Maybe it can improve as soon as they relegate and will be replaced by some that are interesting in training NT players. But it take some time. As training and paying salary of NT players (mean middle age and older players) is quite difficult in lower divisions without losing club ambitions.

My defence tactic was 3-2 zone but I played MtM..

I understand your anger,especially seeing Quattrucci numbers in the game

The strange thing his defenders have 19 and 20 OD, nevertheless he dropped 36 points..
I'm so angry but it will not give me a victory..

Quattrucci can play as PG,SG and SF,you don't need only OD to stop him ;D

Yes it can be a problem to find teams that will be training old players as it's problem to find teams for training about 24 yo. But there are some managers with national feeling and I hope there will be even more in future.
I think primaries can be high enough about age of 28, best players can manage it even earlier. Later they can stay in NT just with stamina, FT and GS training. I don't expect someone training primaries or secondaries to 32 or even longer. But I think many other NT ends with primaries (due to salary or potential) before 25 and then they have no space for secondary trainings.

As I wrote somewhere earlier there is still possibility that I will end my NT coach career without success. I'm ready for that, we will see.

Secondary trainings don't require an increase in salary and are not capped so hard by potential,so if you stop the primary training before players hit the capo,they can train secondaries skills for a very long time

And also the other national teams key players train over 25 ;D

Secondary trainings don't require an increase in salary and are not capped so hard by potential,so if you stop the primary training before players hit the capo,they can train secondaries skills for a very long time

It sounds strange for me. Has anyone similar experience as Steve? I thought that once the player is capped all trainings are much slower (and many secondary training are very slow even before the cap due to low or high height).

I do remember.

Actually i still think it's more difficult to play push the ball with succeed than playing with other tactics like R&G or LI. Push the ball needs certain skills in the line-up that makes it so complicated to play it while to play R&G with 3 outside players you can perform well or the same goes with LI with 2 centers and 1 good PG you still can play nice focussing on inside.


As a coach it's more important to take good tactical decisions than the players you have or the players you are willing to have, it's more about to make that players perform well than to have perfect players.

Secondary trainings don't require an increase in salary and are not capped so hard by potential,so if you stop the primary training before players hit the cap,they can train secondaries skills for a very long time

It sounds strange for me. Has anyone similar experience as Steve? I thought that once the player is capped all trainings are much slower (and many secondary training are very slow even before the cap due to low or high height).

The potential cap is based on skills sum,but obviously the skills has a different weight for different roles.5 level in Js for a player listed as C has a different impact of 5 level in JS for a player listed as G..The salary formula should indicate the skills that have an higher impact on skills sum for reaching the potential cap,so if you stop training before you hit the cap for a role,the increase in secondary skills has a minimal to zero impact on potential cap.
So,if a player is not totally capped,and players with 9(high decimals)-10-11 potential often not reach the cap for salary problems,you can train him in secondaries virtually till the end of his BB life

I believe that small communities should focus on primaries (Chile, Iran, Switzerland), large communities can afford to focus more on secondaries (France, Spain).

It's not a way for me. And I have two reasons:
1) it's hard to find in our country team which is ready to buy (and train) czech player with salary 150k-200k, our community is very salary sensitive
2) I'm not ready to keep myself players which don't deserve his salary and I'm ready to take care of 3 czech players as soon as I win B3

The skillsum of Player A with HA/DR at 5 is lower by 20 than the skillsum of Player B with HA/DR at 15; but if Player B has 5 primary skill levels more than A, he will be stronger.

I'm not sure about that, it depends on tactic and distribution of primary and also secondary skills. I'm not sure if you talked about inside, outside or all players with example of HA/DR. But secondaries are not just about HA/DR.

Actually i still think it's more difficult to play push the ball with succeed than playing with other tactics like R&G or LI. Push the ball needs certain skills in the line-up that makes it so complicated to play it while to play R&G with 3 outside players you can perform well or the same goes with LI with 2 centers and 1 good PG you still can play nice focussing on inside.

And just about that, almost all our players due to skillset fit to Push the Ball. But just few of them fits also for R&G, LI or some other tactics. So we at moment we are ready to play different tactics just if all players for specific tactic are in very good GS. But we will have more and more players for different tactics and then will come their time.

And part of my philosophy is not to be dependent on opponent tactic. So it means be able to set lineup and tactic which wins the game whatever opponent plays.

The skillsum of Player A with HA/DR at 5 is lower by 20 than the skillsum of Player B with HA/DR at 15; but if Player B has 5 primary skill levels more than A, he will be stronger.

I'm not sure about that, it depends on tactic and distribution of primary and also secondary skills. I'm not sure if you talked about inside, outside or all players with example of HA/DR. But secondaries are not just about HA/DR.

I agre with Czech coach here.It's not so easy to say a thing like that,the difference you talk about is enormous in secondaries skills,and also a big man with high DR/HA is much more effective
It depend on the level of the primaries and on the things you are searching in a player.Surely for a 150k big man I would prefer more primary skills,but on a player with higher primaries and salary better secondaries can help to handle better his maintenance in a team,that is an important thing for NT coaches

Last edited by Steve Karenn at 2/22/2011 9:28:34 AM