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I won the World Championship Gold with Italy U21 after doing CT against Venezuela in the early qualifying round before the World Championship
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I do think too that when you have no chance doing CT is the best way to earn a better spot at least.

Last edited by NdR619 - Pilipinas U21 at 2/16/2017 9:41:46 AM

Ah, you're one of those people... sportmanship doesn't matter, only being right.

Play this game for math and statistics, fine. I won't.

So here is my explanation in basketball terms. One team showed more effort and the coach of the weaker team did a better job. The end!

Hell... no.

I mean, congratz for your win, it was huge and definetly you hit the jackpot and I agree about your CT, I'm not against it as a move.

But about coaching this game didn't exactly show what you said. A "1 time win by luck" (because that's, at least to me, is what we're talking about) doesn't prove that your coach did something cool.
If the statistics were right and the game would have ended with at least a garbage time for Italy, would you think the same?
I know "if" is not a great way to begin a sentence, though, but a game engine is composed by codes, so statistics and ratings definetly are important, even to someone who see in this David vs Goliath upset a great outcome.

Just for the records, being a former coach and following Lemon's thoughts, I would have played like this:
- CT
- double prediction inside - fast
- motion (as you did) or patient
- man to man (trying to avoid to be outplayed in rebounding, because with the CT and some more shots to take could have give me a slight advantage)

- because maybe my next opponent will have won in CT his own game (I think one team has reached the final after playing CT before the semis, but I'm not sure...)

This is valid, but if you normalled you'd have an even bigger advantage and you'd be able to save Enth in the following games instead of having to crunch every single one of them, so it's kind of a moot point

- to have a better ranking for the next continental competition (yes it's not random, it's 100% sure).

missing the point. Ranking can get 1 or 2 positions better, I agree, but I dispute that a few ranking positions have any meaningful impact on the draw for the following season. If you know that the draw is based on some specific seeding procedure then please clarify, because then it would be a valid reason to try to win an extra game at the expense of trying to win the tournament.


You can bang on this drum all you want. I'm just glad that the English coaches have not shared your opinion in the past and saved their Enth. Sometimes they did not go through the qualification groups, but when they managed to get good general seeding without sacrificing Enth they won the consolation tournament for the Senior teams. If they crunched or wasted Enth they probably would have not made it (despite being very good coaches).

You have experienced this yourself. Maybe that higher Enth you used in s26 against Hong Kong (in a game you won by 42 points) in the first elimination round came back to bite you in the final. That might have simply been the difference between Morwood bringing back silverware and you going back empty handed, wouldn't you say?

And note: England is the 29th biggest nation in BB. Belgium is 28th, Holland is 37th. The last 3 teams to win the senior consolation tournament other than England are Latvia (20th), Slovakia (34th, won twice in the last 10 editions), Czech Republic (25th, also won twice). The last team to win the U21 competition was Ukraine who is just above Holland in terms of user numbers.

The opportunities for mid sized countries (100-250 users) are there in this competition, wasting Enthusiasm is not the right way to seize them and, personally, if I was a Holland user I would be livid and I would have campaigned to remove the coach when he wasted Enthusiasm in those 2 round robin games he lost by a combined 49 points (especially the first one, which was the second of the season). On second thought, I don't care enough about U21 to campaign to remove the coach.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 2/16/2017 11:07:19 AM

Speak for yourself... you concluded.

In the absence of anyone trying to demonstrate the contrary I'd have thought that was a foregone conclusion.

I provided evidence coming from the play-by-play. If you think Holland was the better team in that specific game (or at least Italy wasn't), surely you can explain us why with some evidence we can relate to. This isn't rocket science, you just need a little patience to check what happened in the game. Saying "shit happens" isn't going to help you make the case that Italy was not the better team in that game, irrespective of ratings.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 2/16/2017 10:48:32 AM

Today is Steven Bradbury's gold anniversary.

Last edited by NdR619 - Pilipinas U21 at 2/16/2017 11:14:20 AM

Yes of course, but the point is : "if you have no chance to win... Play CT". As Manon said, it's better to stay in the race with no enthusiasm that being eliminated with a high enthusiasm. But of course if you think you have a chance to win in normal, play normal. I don't know a lot of managers who will think Netherland had a chance in normal vs Italy...

That is only if you ignore there are another 4 rounds after that.

It's not random, it's fully calculated from the world ranking, between pot 4 and pot 5 the schedule is very different and for 2 teams, that will play for 1 position in the world ranking. I don't know if I'm clear...

Makes sense. It's a normal draw therefore Holland moving from 26th to 23rd might guarantee a slightly easier group stage (4th tier vs 5th tier).

So this is a valid argument to crunch that game for me. The others: not quite.

But about coaching this game didn't exactly show what you said. A "1 time win by luck" (because that's, at least to me, is what we're talking about) doesn't prove that your coach did something cool.

You're right there. It was not super fancy. He played the best strategy he could with the players he had. And that strategy was quite predictable if your coach would have done some minor research.

So you are right, it was not necessarily our coach that dod amazing. It was yoir coach who did aweful. He totally underestimated his opponent, which he is known to have done before. Just a little bit of research would make it quite clear what the options of NL wpuld have been. He could have anticipated that. AND with his enth at give or take 15 he could have played normal the rest of the tournament and probably have won with the strong team and home advantage you had.

So I feel sorry for the Italian community that you have this coach.

So you are right, it was not necessarily our coach that dod amazing. It was yoir coach who did aweful. He totally underestimated his opponent, which he is known to have done before. Just a little bit of research would make it quite clear what the options of NL wpuld have been. He could have anticipated that. AND with his enth at give or take 15 he could have played normal the rest of the tournament and probably have won with the strong team and home advantage you had.

Can't agree with that statement. Look at route to the final of the #1 seed and the #4 seed. Italy would have to beat Czech Rep in quarterfinals for example. Czechs are probably one of the strongest teams in the torunament, and (provided that they will be able to knockout Georgia on TiE, which is not plausible, but still possible) if Italy played normal with Netherlands and Serbia, Squadra Azurra would lose their advantage over Czechs (due to lost enth), which would lead to their exit in quarterfinal.

Please notice that Netherlands, despite their losses with Denmark and Belgium, still were one of the strongest unseeded teams in top 32. However, they still were much, much weaker, than the rest of Italy's potential opponents in next rounds (Serbia in top 16, Czech Rep in top 8, Greece in semis, and finally, Bosnia/Poland in final) - therefore, they had to focus on next rounds.



Last edited by Siwy at 2/16/2017 1:34:18 PM