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Firstly, I claim the average user is not significantly more likely to get a good deal on a great player with auto-bidding than with the current bid system

By default this is wrong.
On current auction system a bidder, that cannot be online at the time of the auction, could only put its max price or hope that a lower value won't be overbided with a price he is willing to pay (meaning below its max price for that player).
On auto-bid system, he could win the auction with a lower price and will not need to take the desicion (a bet more presicely) described above.

There are enough players to go around, you don't need to get exactly that one player whose auction ends at an inconvenient time

And again, in this case there is no argument agains auto-bidding, as you claim it does not change anything.

This gives him only 1 out of 12 of all potential players by definition.
It makes the game unfair, and one that he cannot compete.

I don't agree with your conclusion. The number of players and the number of teams is sufficiently high to even things out. You can either get a player who has almost the same skill set (perhaps with a less cool name and a worse haircut) at the same price, or wait a few more days to get in all practical terms an identical deal. Like I said, it is a bit different for the elite. That is a small group however. Just for the record, I don't even consider myself part of the absolute top in this game, and my team has not exactly been rubbish in the long term with a current world rank of 15th.

By definition, the players are spreaded around the 24H day.
When a typical optional user can get online 2Hrs a day, it means he can get only 1/12 of the players.


Basically if I need to define in one short sentence each claim against auto-bidding you gave it would have been:
1) It will not affect the chances of wining an auction.
2) There is no benefit of being able to be online anytime (kind of) on current system
Each of the above claims have been proved wrong.

Someone a long this thread wrote something that probably others have thought about, and most likely a lot others took action upon.
He wrote that his all focus had been about this game and it causes him to lose focus on his GF, job etc.
Due to that he thought of leaving the game.
I guess that the BB owner would like this not to happen.

Last edited by Pini פיני at 10/21/2011 6:08:15 PM

Again - more time does not equal more skill as a BB manager.

I would say the oposite. A manager who is more active, reading the forum, suffling the transfer list, analyzing games and different tactics, scouting opponents, testing different players etc will be a better manager just because he puts more time in

Yes, but a player in the real world would not sign for a manager just because he can call him at 3AM in the morning!
He will choose the one who could pay him most (at least this is the players main concern).

Summarizing - a potential user for this game can probably connect up to 2 hours every evening and maybe here and there.
And even this is a lot.
This gives him only 1 out of 12 of all potential players by definition.
It makes the game unfair, and one that he cannot compete.

As already stated gazillion times, everyone can bid. Bid max that you are willing to pay if you want the player. Just like with selling players, put in the starting price you are willing to sell the player for. If the player sells at that price, don't come crying that you wanted more. This bidding system has helped me to acquire my recend argentinian SF. I was almost ready to buy a weaker player for more money. Could not be online and did not bid my max money on him. So I got a better player with smaller salary just because I could not be online at one time and was not really willing to commit to blind bid. I'm already seeing the bug thread overflown with bugs of "why did not my autobid work" etc. Like said before, it will drive the prices up. I prefer people purchasing their players by themself. It's really not so much to ask for a few transfers a month. Guys who switch their lineup more are either rebuilding, daytraders or wannabe daytraders:) Believe me noone is quitting over current bid system.

As already stated gazillion times, saying BID MAX is not making the game competetive, as I'm sure you are not giving your max price for a player and wait for GO/No-GO and leave the auction w/o a re-bid.

The game needs to give all users the same basic abillities to compete.
Exactly like there is no need to see the game, there is surely no need to be awake for an auction.

Also in real-BB, the manager is not the one who is being awake for the negotiation.
It is one of the employee who, like auto-bid, gets instruction what is the maximum price for it, and from what price to start from.
Again - the one who bargain is NOT the manager!
This example alone is another BIG reason why auto-bid auctions are much better system for BB-player's auctions.

Yes, but a player in the real world would not sign for a manager just because he can call him at 3AM in the morning!

You do understand that this is a game right? Some things that work in rl, might not be a good solution in a game. And if you are calling someone out of your time zone, would you call him when it's his 3AM or try to reach him at his normal awake hours. So his best time might actually be your 3AM. If you want him, you will make the call at the time it suits him.

The game needs to give all users the same basic abillities to compete.

So what you are argueing about is, that someone logging in once a month, must be on a same level with someone, logging in daily? What is the "correct" amount of logins per month/week/day? There is a 3 day window to bid on a player, to me it's simple: want to get the player cheaper, make sure you are there for the bidwar, want to get the player without being there, bid higher. Every manager can still get the player, so there are no restrictions that you can't bid. You just choose not to.

Last edited by Kukoc at 10/21/2011 7:14:22 PM

And there are even more who consiider it a wastte of time and would be unahappy with the new, and you wont make both happy. Cause auto bid would be the deeath of normal bidding.

And again, in this case there is no argument agains auto-bidding, as you claim it does not change anything.

No, introducing auto-bidding would change the philosophy of the bidding and limit user interaction on the transfer list, and it would make the transfer system more complicated.

Basically if I need to define in one short sentence each claim against auto-bidding you gave it would have been:
1) It will not affect the chances of wining an auction.
2) There is no benefit of being able to be online anytime (kind of) on current system
Each of the above claims have been proved wrong.

No. I am saying there is an advantage in being online, and I even started by saying that I find it a good approach. An actual quote: "Giving advantage to those who are willing to spend some time is IMO actually a pretty good approach." However, due to supply of players, the advantage is generally rather insignificant for the majority of users. While auto-bidding increases one's chances of winning an auction at the lowest possible price, there are so many players on the market you are very likely to find as good a deal on the transfer market even if you would need to wait a couple more days. In addition, I do not believe the transfer market should be designed such that everyone is automatically going to get the best possible deal on any given player. Where's the fun in that? This is a game after all.

If I were asked to support auto-bidding in this game, the only argument I currently see relevant is convenience. Is it more convenient to just put in an auto-bid and forget about it? Sure. However, this gain would need to balanced against such factors as having fun on the transfer market (heated bid wars), complexity of the system (what we have now is a very simple system which everyone can understand with minimum effort, while a really useful auto-bid system would be more complex), giving some advantage to active users (contrary to what you claim I am saying, I actually think there is a small advantage for active users, and I believe it should be so), and even realism.

Anyway, I am not exactly attempting to shoot you down here, Pini פיני.

Yes, but a player in the real world would not sign for a manager just because he can call him at 3AM in the morning!

You do understand that this is a game right? Some things that work in rl, might not be a good solution in a game. And if you are calling someone out of your time zone, would you call him when it's his 3AM or try to reach him at his normal awake hours. So his best time might actually be your 3AM. If you want him, you will make the call at the time it suits him.

Now this is just a bad excuse.
BB managing is not being awake and online whenever you can.
If it is so, let's change the game name and goals to be - "OM - Online Managing, the game that will test how much time you can be online conected to this game".

The game needs to give all users the same basic abillities to compete.

So what you are argueing about is, that someone logging in once a month, must be on a same level with someone, logging in daily? What is the "correct" amount of logins per month/week/day? There is a 3 day window to bid on a player, to me it's simple: want to get the player cheaper, make sure you are there for the bidwar, want to get the player without being there, bid higher. Every manager can still get the player, so there are no restrictions that you can't bid. You just choose not to.

This is another bad excuse pointing to the same issue.
A coach that doesn't come to games and training days is a bad coach.
On the other hand, he is not a bad coach if he is not practically sleeping in the court 24/7 just for the chance that some player will arive and he could extra train him...
The same is true for this game.

Basically you are arguing against it for one reason only - you can get online whenever you want, and it gives you great advantage. Advantage that has nothing to do with BB managing.
The game owner have wanted it to be played by as much who can w/o giving advantages to users that are unfair.

Summarizing - being online whenever you can does not make one being a better BB manager, and due to that it is enough to say that it shouldn't give such great advantage to those players.

And there are even more who consiider it a wastte of time and would be unahappy with the new, and you wont make both happy. Cause auto bid would be the deeath of normal bidding.

Why don't you just admit that you are one of those guys that can get online much more than the others and this is the only reason you are against it?

The auto-bid gives those who wants to go to bid-wars doing just that, but from the price that was set by the auto-bid system.
As you claim "just put your max for that player", it has no difference. Unless you understand that no one plays in this way.

You are changing your basic claim from one message to the other...
One time you are saying that there is no difference but it will be a waste of time.
Then you are argueing the opposite and saying that the only way is current auction's system.
It sounds that you just prefer current system because it gives you (unfair and uncompetetive) advantage over the others.
This advantage has nothing to do with BB managing.

Neither unfair nor uncompetetive. You´re the only one sticking to that. Flat out your "opinion", stop selling it as a fact please.

And again, in this case there is no argument agains auto-bidding, as you claim it does not change anything.

No, introducing auto-bidding would change the philosophy of the bidding and limit user interaction on the transfer list, and it would make the transfer system more complicated.

1) No it will not be more complicated.
Rookie-users could continue bidding online.
It will just start from the price set by the auto-bidding system.

2) The interaction is not about bidding. It is not a game that focus in bidding philosophy.
In addition. I didn't see any interaction besides the bidding itself in an auction at BB.
This game is about BB managing, and most of the interaction (and in much bigger scales) are regarding that - BB managing.

Basically if I need to define in one short sentence each claim against auto-bidding you gave it would have been:
1) It will not affect the chances of wining an auction.
2) There is no benefit of being able to be online anytime (kind of) on current system
Each of the above claims have been proved wrong.

No. I am saying there is an advantage in being online, and I even started by saying that I find it a good approach. An actual quote: "Giving advantage to those who are willing to spend some time is IMO actually a pretty good approach." However, due to supply of players, the advantage is generally rather insignificant for the majority of users. While auto-bidding increases one's chances of winning an auction at the lowest possible price, there are so many players on the market you are very likely to find as good a deal on the transfer market even if you would need to wait a couple more days. In addition, I do not believe the transfer market should be designed such that everyone is automatically going to get the best possible deal on any given player. Where's the fun in that? This is a game after all.

If I were asked to support auto-bidding in this game, the only argument I currently see relevant is convenience. Is it more convenient to just put in an auto-bid and forget about it? Sure. However, this gain would need to balanced against such factors as having fun on the transfer market (heated bid wars), complexity of the system (what we have now is a very simple system which everyone can understand with minimum effort, while a really useful auto-bid system would be more complex), giving some advantage to active users (contrary to what you claim I am saying, I actually think there is a small advantage for active users, and I believe it should be so), and even realism.

Anyway, I am not exactly attempting to shoot you down here, Pini פיני.

So let's write exactly your claims here and we will quote them.
1)

"Giving advantage to those who are willing to spend some time is IMO actually a pretty good approach."

So you are claiming:
a) There is an advantage being oniline whenever you can.
b) There is a reason why it should give this advantage.

The Q is - Is this game is about who can get online whenever he can or about BB managing?
The A is - it is about BB managing. No reason to give any advantage to those types of users, as it gices unfair advantage that is not related to BB managing.

2)

due to supply of players, the advantage is generally rather insignificant for the majority of users.

And here is the opposite claim.
There is no in between.
Or that it gives an advantage or not. period.

[There is more in the next message...]

Last edited by Pini פיני at 10/22/2011 8:13:02 AM

[Continuing previous message]

3)

I do not believe the transfer market should be designed such that everyone is automatically going to get the best possible deal on any given player. Where's the fun in that? This is a game after all.

Basically you are consistently contradicts yourself - now you are arguing:
It gives great advantage for frequent online users and we deserve it.
No you don't. This is BB managing an not anything else.

And yeah, the plan of this game to give fair chance to all to place their bidding.
I've never heard an auction goes to market in the worst time for most.

Generaly speaking you are suggesting any claim (that contradicts each other) in favor of keeping your advantage.
By that keeping this game narrow to much smaller community.

Why not just giving money upon time a person is active on site?
It is purely the same.

As the vote shows, it is not "flat out" me against the others, as you are trying to imply.

It is not supporise that those who tries to turn it down are those who enjoy exactly this unfair huge advantage.

Now again you returning to another claim saying that current system is "Fair and competetive".
And again I will argue that if it so there is no reason not to use auto-bidding, as it will not change any advantage that you here by claiming that is not existing.

And again I will remind you that after all the bids are received from the auto-bidders, the online bidders are free to play from that point, so no change for them either (and again as you claimed it will not make it unfair for them)

I will again remind you that you suggested them to set MAX price for the auction.
So it will not change the value starting from for the online users.

Basically you are jumping from one claim to another and not realy responding to arguments that ruled out each one of them.

In case the site's owner would like it to be a small community that could play 24/7, the current auction system is GREAT.
In case he wants it to be expanded, there is no argue that auto-bid system is much more competetive system and fair for a game that is about BB managing.