BuzzerBeater Forums

An arrow means an improvement, 100% of the time.. But what about the absence of an arrow?
With other skills, [no arrow]=[no improvement] is probably right 90% of the time.
But for experience, you cannot assume [no arrow]=[no improvement] because that's wrong probably 90% of the time.

So arrows are a lot less meaningful regarding experience.

errr.....what are you on about?

You said with other skills no arrow = no improvement most of the time, but that is completely wrong. If I train something, then that skill and all the secondary skills for that training, will DEFINITELY improve even if no arrow is shown.
An arrow does not signify improvement, it simply signifies change to the next number. So 7.9 to 8 would be an arrow. But 7.5 to 7.9 would not show an arrow.

An arrow means an improvement, 100% of the time.. But what about the absence of an arrow?
With other skills, [no arrow]=[no improvement] is probably right 90% of the time.
But for experience, you cannot assume [no arrow]=[no improvement] because that's wrong probably 90% of the time.

So arrows are a lot less meaningful regarding experience.

errr.....what are you on about?

You said with other skills no arrow = no improvement most of the time, but that is completely wrong. If I train something, then that skill and all the secondary skills for that training, will DEFINITELY improve even if no arrow is shown.

You honestly think the developers simply forgot to add the arrow functionality to experience pops?

What I said is absolutely right. Even if your player improves in 4 different skills in one week and doesn't pop, there are still 8 other skills in which he does not improve. So [no arrow]=[no improvement] will always be true at least 66% of the time, even if your player gets 48 minutes.
For experience, the only case in which [no arrow]=[no improvement] is when your player gets exactly 0 minutes.

An arrow does not signify improvement, it simply signifies change to the next number. So 7.9 to 8 would be an arrow. But 7.5 to 7.9 would not show an arrow.

An arrow does signify improvement. You cannot have an (green) arrow when there is no improvement.
For new managers, arrows mean A LOT.
Before they have a clear understanding of the training system, they base their players' progression on arrows.
The thing with skills vs experience is that arrows are a lot more meaningful for skills than they are for experience.
If a new manager sees an arrow for experience it will mislead him into thinking he just did something great, when really experience was going to pop sooner or later no matter what. In my opinion that's very different from training skills, where arrows are a also a simplistic way to determine if your training was successful, but it makes way more sense than with experience.

Last edited by Thelonious at 1/22/2011 10:11:31 AM

You honestly think the developers simply forgot to add the arrow functionality to experience pops?

This could be possible, XP can pop after every game and training pops are calculated seperately.

So another problem would be how long does the arrow stays visible. One game? One week? 2 weeks?

I still don't understand why you think there shouldn't be an arrow for experience.
The only reason that I can see that you have given is that new players will be confused.
But if you want to look at it like that, then maybe there should be no down arrow for stamina loss.
We both know that players are losing stamina every week and if a new player sees a stamina drop then maybe he will think he did something bad (according to your reasoning). So if the stamina drop has an arrow despite being potentially misleading to new players, then experience should definitely have an arrow to show an increase.

But if you want to look at it like that, then maybe there should be no down arrow for stamina loss.

Yeah, fair enough.
I'm guessing right now very few are the people who monitor experience precisely (I don't, do you?)
So I'm guessing these 1% have an advantage (relative to the actual importance of experience in this game, which we can only speculate on) over players who don't monitor it.
If there was an arrow, I'm guessing that 1% would jump to about 10%.
Now I'm not against it, it's just a matter of where you want the gap? Like, do you want it to be between D.I and D.II, or between D.II and D.III. I'm starting to think maybe your opinion is better.

I know for me, learning on the forums that there was no arrows for exp pops, I was like "hm, that's interesting". And I kind of see the point of that. But we can all have different opinions. I just think these forums are a great tool for this game, and that's one way to develop the game and its community. If there is no more tricks to be learnt from reading these forums then the game becomes boring, too.

Peace.

I use BuzzerControl, which records the pops for everything (including experience) each week, as well as changes in DMI etc. So I will always notice when I have had a pop in experience, but I think it would be handy for new users to see a pop so that they realise it can increase. The forums are definitely a great tool for the game, but not everyone uses the forums unfortunately, so perhaps having an arrow for an increase in experience might bring more people to the forum to find out why they got a pop in experience.

I agree with everything you just said.
That said, even the kind of noobs would know experience can increase ;)

You honestly think the developers simply forgot to add the arrow functionality to experience pops?

Well, anyone that thinks that would be mistaken.

It's more of a technical issue than anything.

So you ideally would put it in, but technically it is hard to do so probably not worth it? If so, no worries.

We may do it if a way to do it technically pops up.