BuzzerBeater Forums

1. we prefer having transfer with teams you don't know, instead of encouraging them. Only when you use the whole market, you get good prices.

I like it when you refer to yourself as "WE"...
As written, the user will have an option of not allowing a draft pick being part of a bidding.
It does not make the market smaller, but the other way around - one with less market has more to trade with.

2. i don't think that a random drafted player has really a value, which would make it worthy to change the system.

Let's say that there are 6 player worth 80K (when you just sell them) inside of a single draft.
This mean that a user W/O any knowledge (even not the first divisions upon "balls"), has 6/48 chance of getting those players.
This is one out of 8, or in other words or 12.5%.
Getting 12.5% chance for getting a 80K player means that giving a draft pick is worth 10K.
So, it is worth money. The only question is how much.
And again - YOU don't have to use it.

3. with the differences that there are professional who always act for their own, know the coming draft stocks and could predict the seasonal outcome to a certain stage. A computer formula here would be more complicated right?

Any formula can be formulated to a simpler form.
Example - do not allow at the first 6 games to use this option, and then consider current place as as if that was the place that team will finish.
A more complex one will give a lower price for a draft pick given earlier. The bidder can decide whether it worth the price or just offer money.

4. but it would affect them if other sell, even when mostly for their own gain when the half league draft like bots. Also you had to bid against them. So it is not something you could easily exclude if you just against it. It is not when the BB implement a car racer, you can play during the half time break which brings just fun to thse who like it and doesn't impact the game itself.(logical)

Don't understand this argument.

5. if draft player have a higher value to a lower league team, then they should pay more for it - not getting them for less ;) This was at least my logic say. So give the same product with the same price for everyone, which would be fair.

That was what I've wrote - higher league teams should get less for their bidded draft players.

From the seller POV, he may get an option to define the value of a draft player, but this is not a must.
It is not a must, because as already described before, a seller can define how many draft players he wants to be part of the bid, and by that he know what he will get.

Basically, we have here BUYER value and SELLER value. They can be different.
Say the current bid is X.
Now a bidder want to add a draft player, and he his informed that his draft player is worth A, and he add it to X "in cash".
BUT the bid is not (X+A) from the seller POV, which means that the next bid needs to be (X+B)*1.01, and not (X+A)*1.01 (for example).
In this example A will be A(1) for bidder from the first division and A(2) from one from one that is from division 2. B is what the seller defined to be the worth of a draft player to him (which is informed at the auction page).
And again - this is just a more complex solution. The simpler one defined above is enough.

Im amazed how you come up with these thing. Gotta say i dont really understand what good this would do for anyone.

It wouldn't do any.

I like it when you refer to yourself as "WE"...
As written, the user will have an option of not allowing a draft pick being part of a bidding.
It does not make the market smaller, but the other way around - one with less market has more to trade with.

with we i mean the gms, transfer get more completicated when there is an realation.

Don't understand this argument.

bad luck on your side, it affect you when traded draft pick draft blind even when you don't like the sell option. Ok is it on your benefit, but it still affect you.

That was what I've wrote - higher league teams should get less for their bidded draft players.

i returned your arguement, lower league had to pay more for raft picks, that not what you wrote. Your argument get curious, when you deny 2 draft üick of a higher league team beside a draft pick of lower league just because it is a draft pick of a higher league. Sorry that this don't go into your mind, just because i use only your logic.

[q}From the seller POV, he may get an option to define the value of a draft player, but this is not a must.[//q]

for you it standard that an apple of a div 1 is value less then the same apple from a div 3.

The idea is to allow to add to an auction some draft picks as part of the personal bidding.

I don't understand what this achieves from the game design point of view. Care to elaborate (on topic)?

The value of draft picks should be calculated upon the current place that user posses, the division he is playing at (higher divisions uses less their draft picks, and has the same potential, so on draft picks form higher divisions should be counted as less).

In all divisions across the BB universe every single draft pick is used. The worth of a draft pick depends on the expected finishing place of a team, the amount of scouting information available, and of course ultimately the quality of the draft class in that league. Some of these measures vary greatly during the season, while others remain constant although potentially unknown. Setting the value of the draft pick solely on the current draft order in bidder's league is a hilarious suggestion. A strong team can potentially maximize their draft pick's value at the beginning of the season. Any bidding team is also in a position to dump draft picks upon seeing an uncommonly weak draft class or after wasting their scouting on the wrong players. The selling team has no control, they would just need to accept whatever is coming. Unless the value of the draft pick is made super small (in which case what is the point for the bidding team?), the average seller will always lose on this deal since you want to give the control to the bidder.

Btw, who would actually do the picking? If it is the seller, where do they get the scouting information? Using their own points, or using a specific number of points allocated by the bidder, or perhaps directly the information they have gathered?

I wonder how complex this gets from the implementation point of view, when each team can have a draft pick in N different leagues (N being a huge number). They need access to the draft lists of each such league, assuming the selling party is indeed the one doing the picking. It should be rather straightforward to implement this suggestion if it is the bidder who does the picking. In that case the value of the pick is however very questionable for the seller.

Let's try again, I have patient...

On the simpler form of this suggestion, both sides know the price of a draft picks, and can decide whether they want to sell or buy one.
A draft pick given by a team from an higher league is worth less from the buyer POV, and hence in REAL negotiation he would have get less for that comparing to a buyer from a lower league.
This is the true life of a business-man.
Anyone that has no interest can understand that.

On the more complex form, it just make it more fair for the seller.
Again, the seller know what he may miss in the simpler form, but he may get less than on the more complex form of this suggestion.
On the complex form, the buyer that will add draft pick will be calculated as if he added X to the A he set in cash, and it will be verified that he passed the threshold of (Previous-Bid + Min-Diff-Between-Bids).
The current bid that is needed to be overbid will be calculated from the seller POV - meaning that now the draft-pick will carry his value for that player.

I've learned that When someone is eagerly trying not to understand, there is a reason to that.

On the simpler form of this suggestion, both sides know the price of a draft picks, and can decide whether they want to sell or buy one.
A draft pick given by a team from an higher league is worth less from the buyer POV, and hence in REAL negotiation he would have get less for that comparing to a buyer from a lower league.

why is that like that, is a first pick of a div 1 different from a first pick of a div 5? No it is the same. The only reason you bring in is, that higher div value the draft less, i doubt that but let say it is true in that case the value for the team who get the draft pick is higher since the likelihood of getting a good draft pick with a later pick is better.*

Anyone that has no interest can understand that.

no interest in economic, thinking etc? Or did you go to a shop, and try to get a apple cheaper in saying buying another apple for the same quality for the same price. Also the super market don't raise the price of the apples, since you walk in with a suit and not in jeans and look like you had money.

The current bid that is needed to be overbid will be calculated from the seller POV - meaning that now the draft-pick will carry his value for that player.

think about it, the "offered" player has it value independ of his team who own it.

But you still don't find solution for the basic problems, like knowledge about the draft pool, defining a proper value for the pick etc.

* since apples are maybe to real for you, i give you an example. You like to sell Player X and get following offers:

50.000$ + a fifth pick
50.000$ + a first pick

i believe common sense would lead to take the second offer, but people of logic like you take offer one since this teams play 3 leagues below ;)

Last edited by CrazyEye at 1/7/2012 12:37:57 PM

On the simpler form of this suggestion, both sides know the price of a draft picks, and can decide whether they want to sell or buy one.
A draft pick given by a team from an higher league is worth less from the buyer POV, and hence in REAL negotiation he would have get less for that comparing to a buyer from a lower league.

why is that like that, is a first pick of a div 1 different from a first pick of a div 5? No it is the same.

No it is not the same.
Buying BOSH (a German equipment) equipment in German will cost much less than in Israel.
Buying an apple in an area full of apple fields own by different suppliers (just so you could understand), will cost less than buying it in a City.
Buying a Draft-pick from a team that will throw/sell it anyhow gives less leverage to the draft-pick's owner.

Anyone that has no interest can understand that.

no interest in economic, thinking etc? Or did you go to a shop, and try to get a apple cheaper in saying buying another apple for the same quality for the same price. Also the super market don't raise the price of the apples, since you walk in with a suit and not in jeans and look like you had money.

The super market will not give a different price per person that buys a small quantity.
But, if you will go and try to bargain in shops, they will act differently if there are competitors near them.

Oh, I have another good example.
You are going to the market, and they are about to close the shop to the WE.
They have APPLES. They need to sell it today, as they have no reason to hold it, and keeping it another day will mean they will need to throw them away anyhow, or pay for place to hold them.
What they will do is that, they will lower the price as a discount for last minute sell.

The current bid that is needed to be overbid will be calculated from the seller POV - meaning that now the draft-pick will carry his value for that player.

think about it, the "offered" player has it value independ of his team who own it.

And now you are saying that the team owns it needs to be viewed. You contradicts yourself.
Anyhow, I wrote (in the previous message) that the place a team is being at will be calculated to the value of the draft-pick (as well as the league they are).
And as it seems that you are keep going back and forth, I will again write down that I've also wrote that it may define that in order to define it in a proper way, this draft-pick option may be turn valid only after few weeks for the beginning of the season.
Also in the NBA, you can never know what will happen at the end of the year when one is trading a draft-pick at the start/middle of the year.

Last edited by Pini פיני at 1/7/2012 1:27:03 PM

Trading draft picks is simply not reasonable in open leagues. And unrealistic, unmanageable.

Yes it is.

No it is not the same.
Buying BOSH (a German equipment) equipment in German will cost much less than in Israel.
Buying an apple in an area full of apple fields own by different suppliers (just so you could understand), will cost less than buying it in a City.
Buying a Draft-pick from a team that will throw/sell it anyhow gives less leverage to the draft-pick's owner.

we have the amount of draft picks in every league, so the supply should be the same ;) And if you offer a draft pick, you are willing to sell him and then the price is indepent of the team who own it. Cause you have trouble with indepent, it means it don't play a role.

The super market will not give a different price per person that buys a small quantity.
But, if you will go and try to bargain in shops, they will act differently if there are competitors near them.

yes they will, but not when you say i don't give you 5$ i go to the other shop and buy it there for 6.

And when the shoüp have two offer for the apple, he will take the better which is the 10$ note instead of the five(even if the people who is givng the 5$ note is from a lower league). You could bet on it. And that the way BB is bargaining.

If you really say, the top division need it less, then the price should drop if you offer your draft pick instead of money to this team, and raise if you offer the lower div team. Since they rate this payment method higher, which makes more sense in taking the worse offer depending on the league who made it.