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(how) Do the box +1 defences work?

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288522.6 in reply to 288522.5
Date: 7/20/2017 2:21:05 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
I think you may be right because also for me the mtm defense guy has never been the best defender (I played mostly inside box-1).

I can try that again when I have a scrimmage in the future, because on the main team I have quite a gap between the best defenders and the other players, so if they don't get picked that would almost assuredly confirm your guess.


That would be cool. I think if I were to put a little scouting into my PL and actually came up against a team where that sort of thing would make sense I could possibly replicate it, but probably not nearly as cleanly as it sounds like you could.

This Post:
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288522.7 in reply to 288522.6
Date: 7/20/2017 2:36:06 PM
Arsenal 98
II.3
Overall Posts Rated:
282282
Second Team:
Stamford Snow Leopards
I like that theory above Hrudey, not sure it works though.
If we say my C Johns was the man defender in that game, he has 1 and 2 less OD than the other two of the SF-PF-C combo.

What he does have is the most combined OD/ID/SB of the 3 though, so maybe your theory adapted to that formula? (Can't be sure either way on the just OD/ID combination, as it's the same as one of the others)

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288522.8 in reply to 288522.7
Date: 7/20/2017 5:39:31 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
I like that theory above Hrudey, not sure it works though.
If we say my C Johns was the man defender in that game, he has 1 and 2 less OD than the other two of the SF-PF-C combo.

What he does have is the most combined OD/ID/SB of the 3 though, so maybe your theory adapted to that formula? (Can't be sure either way on the just OD/ID combination, as it's the same as one of the others)


I could see it being OD/ID/SB. I could see being completely wrong too. How would he have compared with OD + SB only?

(edit: I just glanced through the PBP and it looksl ike he's guarding both Upis and Gustavsson quite frequently, so I'm not entirely certain he's the "and one" but I'm leaving the office shortly and will certainly forget to investigate further.)

Last edited by GM-hrudey at 7/20/2017 5:43:37 PM

From: GM-hrudey

This Post:
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288522.10 in reply to 288522.9
Date: 7/20/2017 5:48:56 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
If anyone like I can do a test with my team. I got two guards with decent OD and no ID or SB. And then I got three trainees with 12 OD and 13-15 ID/SB.


When my time in the Cup is over, my regular non-league lineup has an obvious best outside scorer, and he'll be intended to play 48, so I could probably be the person you run the test against. Just don't push that 'eject GM-hrudey from the Cup' button too soon, okay? ;)

(edit: And I'll have the helpful side effect of having pathetic offensive flow, too, so it should be easy to see who's guarding him, especially if I do a patient).

Last edited by GM-hrudey at 7/20/2017 5:50:05 PM

From: GM-hrudey

This Post:
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288522.11 in reply to 288522.9
Date: 7/20/2017 9:49:43 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
If anyone like I can do a test with my team. I got two guards with decent OD and no ID or SB. And then I got three trainees with 12 OD and 13-15 ID/SB.


Well, it seems that the engine's recent infatuation with trying to drive out any sanity I may have once had is still going strong, I'm available for a scrimmage next week if you're up for it. Hitchcock at PG is definitely going to be, by far, the best outside shooter on the court for me, although of course he'll still spend most of the game trying to pretend he's an inside player and throw up pointless drives and inside shots, missing unconstested jumpers, and then only once the game is out of reach will he shoot many threes (but if it gets close enough to matter, he'll go back to layup mode).

Last edited by GM-hrudey at 7/20/2017 9:50:13 PM

This Post:
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288522.13 in reply to 288522.12
Date: 7/21/2017 4:35:46 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
My best inside defender has 47 OD+ID+SB. My SF has 38 but obviously more OD. My best OD guard has 30 but very low SB.

Next inside defender has 30, next forward has 32 (but significantly less OD). Second OD guard has 33 and higher SB than the top one.

That's as clear cut as it gets for the inside guy, I'm pretty sure I've never seen anyone with a higher OD/ID/SB/RB count and that includes Hayek who has also much lower IS to boot. So if I play box-1 and he doesn't defend most of the inside shots then we can safely assume that it works in some other way.

It would also be interesting to see who among the guards would be the mtm guy. My top guard is a much more polished offensive player (the other is a trainee), but they have similar ID so the real difference are the extra points on OD on one side and the significant higher SB on the other. I think I will check in the scrimmages at the end of the season.

This Post:
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288522.14 in reply to 288522.13
Date: 7/21/2017 9:38:06 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
My best inside defender has 47 OD+ID+SB. My SF has 38 but obviously more OD. My best OD guard has 30 but very low SB.

Next inside defender has 30, next forward has 32 (but significantly less OD). Second OD guard has 33 and higher SB than the top one.

That's as clear cut as it gets for the inside guy, I'm pretty sure I've never seen anyone with a higher OD/ID/SB/RB count and that includes Hayek who has also much lower IS to boot. So if I play box-1 and he doesn't defend most of the inside shots then we can safely assume that it works in some other way.

It would also be interesting to see who among the guards would be the mtm guy. My top guard is a much more polished offensive player (the other is a trainee), but they have similar ID so the real difference are the extra points on OD on one side and the significant higher SB on the other. I think I will check in the scrimmages at the end of the season.


Well, had I known that Manon wasn't going to be able to test this in a friendly, I would have asked him to push the eject button on your Cup run when he pushed the one to end mine.

I'm going to turn back on my autofriendly for now, but if you (or anyone else) wants to run an outside box and one test, let me know and I'll turn that back off and we'll arrange a friendly.

This Post:
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288522.15 in reply to 288522.14
Date: 7/21/2017 11:17:00 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
Still in the cup for now, but I will definitely be able to at the end of the season. It's not hard to guess that the guy with 47 is (31801722) and that I will kind of need him to play in the league unless I go into tanking mode. So it will be at the end of the season. I might even get supporter towards the end and arrange a scrimmage between my 2 teams (I usually use come playoffs time in order to adjust minutes as I like, but I can also use it for this).


From: _wella_
This Post:
11
288522.16 in reply to 288522.4
Date: 7/21/2017 4:43:31 PM
Vattjom Vatos
SBBL
Overall Posts Rated:
258258
Second Team:
Utopia Vatos
Box-and-One defenses: Four players play in a zone defense protecting the basket while the fifth player plays a man-to-man defense guarding the best offensive player on the other team. This prevents him from scoring as much. There are two types of box-and-one defenses:
Inside Box-and-One: The fifth defender focuses on the opponent's best inside scorer. Normal pace.
Outside Box-and-One: The fifth defender focuses on the opponent's best outside scorer. Normal pace.

Could it be, that the "fifth defender" in Inside Box-and-One is the C and the "fifth defender" in Outside Box-and-One is the PG?
It could also (not likely!) mean that the PG (the others positions are selected to the four man inside box) defends the best scorer, both in Inside Box-and-One and Outside Box-and-One, since the PG(or rather the position) is the fifth defender(position wise) when calculating the zone?

It's not a crystal clear explanation in the manual!

I sincerely thought the Outside Box-and-One one was a four-player outside zone and the C, i was thinking "Outside box" + "and one" to begin with. :-) No wonder it didn't work the way I thought it would! ;-)

But when I read the rules again (and again) I assume, that in ANY of the Box-and-One defenses you need both OD and ID (and SB and RB[more in Outside Box-and-One] as well) since the four man zone will defend against both outside AND inside players and grab rebounds!

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