BuzzerBeater Forums

3) International representative competition
currently the interest in international competitions are an estimated 10% of the community of a nation (and my 10% is an optimistic guess!) The competition has gone stale (see earlier why) and it's too predictable. As mentioned earlier:

The international competitions have gone stale (as in are uninteresting for 70% of the teams. 10% know they'll make it to the next round. 60 % knows they have no chance to make it to the next round. Which means you've got 20% of the teams where it actually matters, only to then face teams that have stacked up the enthusiasm to the max in the final rounds...

Solutions
a) tie TV rights in a country to the results of your U21 & NT. that way, managers and teams get more incentive to be interested in the U21/NT teams and that will demand that whoever is managing them, does his best for the job. Increasing the merchandise wouldn't be a bad thing, However, you want to motivate the entire community. Hence, i suggest that the TV rights should also be influenced by the U21/NT (and not a minor influence, but a serious one.) The reason why i'm not suggesting a change in merchandise, is because i want the merchandise to represent something concering the players on that own team. TV rights are division & nation wide, so let the U21/Nt results factor into those instead of directly
b) A suggestion of several posts was made in the U21/NT forum a couple of seasons back. It was well received at the time by the U21/NT managers, but no news has been released since. the suggestion can be found here: (284534.1) [might i suggest that topic gets moved to the suggestion forum? plz edit message when that has been done]

the goal here is to get users involved & motivated for the U21/NT teams! currently 70% of the community couldn't care less about those teams (the % might be higher) there is no motivation for them. I'm not saying you should be messaging the U21/NT coach or scouts daily. But a minimal interest should be considered healthy or else we might aswell scratch the U21/NT section (something i would find a pitty, since a lot can be learned at U21/Nt lvl)

4) Create new staff functions
With the greatest respect to the current developping staff, i feel as thought more could be done and this is a feeling that seems to echo through out the entire community. Currently, you have to analyse problems, think about solutions & then face the backlash from the community, so i really don't envy your role or position in this community. If anything, i have the utmost respect for the BB's & Marin in particular for doing the job for such a long time! However, i feel as though things could be done more efficiently. In these posts, i'm just pointing out a bunch of really obvlious problems. In my honnest oppion, you need those who can code stuff (the BB's) and you need those who can come up with solutions (Let's call those BB's think tank). I think you can split those roles. BB's should still hold the final say, but i think there are a bunch of people who would potentially have great idea's, but currently they just get lost on the suggestion forum. Also, if you want to go with that mentorship suggestion (see instant gratification, part 2) then you'll probably need a new function too for those spearheading that part.

The point i'm trying to get at is that i think the BB's have to much work. they currently have to come up with new idea's, solutions to certain problems and implement everything in code. Split up the work a bitt. Take some of the burden off the BB's. Problem is finding people who generally want to improve the game and not make suggestions for their own benefit. i understand that part.

Also, i'd strongly suggest you do an evaluation of the game every 3 or 4 seasons. That means putting together a committee who evaluate the game (to prepare the next state of BB, as it were). BB's should still have a say in it, but because those have other responsibilities, let an EGM or a GM head the committee, who examen the game and make potential suggestions. Such a Committee should exist of a couple of members from the staff and normal members too. The bigger the group, the harder it is to get everyone to agree on things, so i'm not looking for a group of 100+ people. My suggestion would be: 1 EGM or BB, 3 GM's, 3 LA's & 14 other members, to be selected by the group of GM's who will be taking the lead for the project. if a former BB could sit within this group, then that would be great, since he could provide extra insight. Since this group would be required to work closely, i'd suggest the use of a forum backed up by a vocal channel (let's say a discord ish feature) so that they can do their due dilligence. I currently don't have a suggestion as to what the best way would be for people to be selected (or apply) to this group, since that group would have a larger influence of checking on suggestions made to see if they can come up with idea's to improve the game. That would mean that BB's would be tasked with attempting to implement the suggestions made by such a group, over a certain time frame. Also, by creating such a group, the community would feel that they have more input in making actual suggestions, since at the current moment, many suggestions are made (we shall not debate if they are good or poor ones, nor the urgency of them) but most feel that those suggestions are being ignored. To be very clear, i do recommend that good knowledge of english is a prerequisite since BB's communicate in ENGLISH. I know that there are large subsections of the community who use other languages (Spanish, French, mandarin, German, just to name a few) but let's keep it simple to start up. if it works well, we can consider adding language depending groups.

For those of you who will point out that selection to that committee means you get a larger input into the game, then you are right. that is the downside, but i do believe that this could relief a rather large burden of the BB's. either they can't code anymore or they are swamped with work. I still tend to belief that they are swamped with work and untill proven otherwise, want to believe that they are capable of coding enough solutions in the futur. Maybe this excercise can be done once (have a test run) and see what results it might come up with. It should at the very least get tested once. just to see if this could work within this community. And if it does yield results, then maybe it can work for the futur too. Just some food for thought

Idea rating: I'd put this into category 2 (or 3). the reason why i'd consider this category 2, is because there will have to be a lvl of trust towards whoever gets into that think tank or evaluations committee. You have to trust that they are doing what is best for the game, which is the one thing this community has a hard time with (just think of the backlash the staff got for implementing a tax hoarding rule or the 5th team promoting change.) The intentions of the BB's have always been good and that imo can't be doubted. However, if you enlargen that group to a largar amount (21 as suggested) you need to be certain that they'll act in the best interest of the game. That means sometimes making very impopular decisions, which is going to be a hard sell. So for me, the biggest difficulty will be to find people to populate that think tank or evaluation committee, which is why this might work in an ideal world, but not in the current BB (hence the reason why it might be a cateogry 3 suggestion).

5) Forum overhaul

curerntly, nearly all the fora are dead. At best, there is some activity in the nations top fora and sporadically, you have some forum warriors (who i immensely respect) who are trying to make something in other divisions, but generally are putting forth a monologue or a 2 person conversation.

Other problem: the current forum is flooded with information & at the same time, it's so fragmented that good threads get lost.

I'm suggesting we implement a new forum structure. 1 forum per nation. (the top division can have their own thread, a thread for the II teams, 1 thread for the III, IV, V teams etc). That way, people won't feel isolated on the fora anymore. We've lost plenty of active people on the fora. However, if you unite them, they should spark activity again. Activity leads to information exchange, which means the entire community will benefit from the activity. It also provides the U21/NT managers which a great way to interact with their communitees.

idea rating: Category 1


I'm going to repeat myself. These are my views, who i've shared & edited after input of valued managers who i believe have the best intentions with the game. This is not a community wide survey. Nor is it meant as an letter to say that the staff is doing shit. This is just my view of the problems that currently plague BB & some potential suggestions (which might not even be the best one out there!) It is my sincere hope that these posts can serve as a starting point to tackle some of the problems this game faces. And with that, the hope that we can see our user number go up again, instead of seeing it dwindle as it has for the past 3 years.

respectfully yours,

Athrun


ps: i'm always open for discussion, be in on the forum or by mails should people not want to make their views public. Given a good point, i'd be happy to edit some of the idea's & i sincerely hope that atleast some suggestions will be taken into account by the BB's. I'm also open to helping figuring out a good algorithm for some of the idea's mentioned above, should be off any help to a BB, but i'll only start doing so after hearing from one (or from an EGM)

Very interesting read with a lot of good thoughts and considerations. I have a few comments to make:

First of all let me just point out that I think the game has improved drastically since the hiring of new staff and the introduction of the development calendar. I don't know whether or not this is reflected in the growth or decline of the userbase though.

a) rewrite your entire Game Manual. it's been outdated. or update the FAQ that was once written by Naker Virus & have the LA's translate that FAQ to the own respective language so that that forum can be linked in the welcome message to new users. This would be a HUGE major update (one that could be penciled in the calender, and one that doesn't require the BB's to work on it! You could leave this to a group of community members, all while you are working on coding solutions for other problems! Although, i do feel somewhat bad for the LA's in this case, because they are going to have to translate an entire new manual, which would be a lot of new work!
b) set up a mentoring program that is wide spread acros the entirety of BB. (but overseeing the correct appointment of mentors and new candidates can very well be a full time job or a part time job for multiple people!

I really like these propositions. I agree that the game manual could use a serious revamp since it doesn't really seem that the latest changes have been fully integrated. About the translation part, that should be possible. Personally, I'd be happy to help even though I'm not an LA.
A new and improved mentorship program would be a huge step in the right direction to keep new users, which I think is one of this game's biggest problems. I'd propose that it would be done as an integrated part of the site instead of "just" a forum thing. Just take a look at hattrick for inspiration!

a) tie TV rights in a country to the results of your U21 & NT. that way, managers and teams get more incentive to be interested in the U21/NT teams and that will demand that whoever is managing them, does his best for the job. Increasing the merchandise wouldn't be a bad thing, However, you want to motivate the entire community. Hence, i suggest that the TV rights should also be influenced by the U21/NT (and not a minor influence, but a serious one.) The reason why i'm not suggesting a change in merchandise, is because i want the merchandise to represent something concering the players on that own team. TV rights are division & nation wide, so let the U21/Nt results factor into those instead of directly

I agree that making NT's more important would increase the overall interaction between users. This being said, I have some concerns about your suggestion. If you tie TV money to NT results it would certainly punish small countries no matter how involved their userbase is. Therefore I don't think that this suggestion would solve the problem, but instead, give an unfair advantage to teams from larger nations who have a much bigger pool of players to pick from. To make this suggestion valid you could do two things:
1) Make sure that the decrease or increase in TV money is influenced only by how the nation performs compared to nations of similar size - there's no way a nation like Denmark could compete with Spain, no matter how engaged we are in the NT.
2) Merge ALL micros and mid-size countries and make an NT for the new merged country and scrap all the old NT's.
Even if this is done I'm still not sure how I feel about this; tieing clubs' income to the success of their NT would make users in a nation dependent upon each other, which could hurt teams' chances to succeed at an international level. We shouldn't have have to depend on our fellow countrymen to be active in order to succeed ourselves.

You both posted some interesting stuff to read!

I am however not a big fan of merging the smaller countries NTs, instead I think BB should start with some small improvements.

I think that if you want to increase the interaction on NTs it would help to make the NT more visible on the website. You really have to search for a link to the tournament your NT is competing in.
So let's start with a couple suggestions to create more awareness for NTs:
First I think the menu needs an extra tab that directly leads you to the World Cup or Continental tournament of the current season.
Next, NT games should be more advertised. For example all players should have an extra clock that’s counting down to the next tournament/qualifier round. When that tournament starts, the clock should be counting down till the next NT game. So similar to the clock for your own games.
Last I think that creating a global forum for the World cup could improve the interaction between players.

These suggestions are intended to make the activity or games of NTs more visible. The next suggestions are to intended to get more people involved.
First, I think if BB would organise a World Cup Prediction just like it exists for B3, more people would follow the games.
Second, why not create a poll in the previous proposed global forum, so that we can vote on the MVP of the tournament, or do it for each country separately. Just like you can vote on how the NT-coach is doing, you could vote for the best player of the campaign of the current season.

Finally, as I already said, do I not believe in the merger of several countries into one. However it is true that more stronger (small) countries would make the games more fun to watch instead of making them predictable. Therefore I would like to suggest a reform of Utopia teams. As they do not have a NT, why not add players from small countries to their draft in the future? Perhaps 1/3 (so 16 per Div) are from countries with less than 15 active users. 2/3 are still utopia players or perhaps another way to divide the draft could be 1/3 utopia 1/3 small countries and 1/3 first team nationality. I think it would give supporters a nice extra feature. Maybe also by adding an extra drafting option ‘e.g. show nationality’. As the draft is random, players with a different nationality could still be dreadful, so supporters are not too much favored and the impact on other non-supporter users isn’t too big. It would simply make smaller countries stronger as they have more players to choose from.
Another suggestion would be to add more good players of those countries on the TL as free agent after the draft. This was suggested here (273519.611). I would however apply it only for small countries and not for all nations.

However, because some managers in the top divisions have hoarded so much cash, it makes it impossible to catch up to them.

I finally got time to read the whole post carefully You nicely pointed out some issues BB has to deal with and offered some nice suggestions.

However I don't believe that your ideas on hoarding are that effective, they are more a punishment for teams that have been successful. As I recently rejoined BB and got promoted to Div. II the gap between me and older teams is way big. I don't stand a chance (probably will be an elevator team) But still, taking away money from other teams seems too harsh, because let's face it: there are just not a lot of things experienced managers could spend their money on. Their stadiums are already build as attendances for games is capped, if they spend too much on salaries they'll get an overextension tax.. They can only spend a lot on buying players and staff and those don't need to be changed that often.

Why not work with a limit on the budget they can spend? Let's say if a team reaches 15 million, all the extra budget would build up as a reserve. If they drop below 15, they would get X% of their reserve each week until they get back to 15. So they can buy a new team but then te next season they won't be able to invest that much. All the money they've earned would not be "stolen" from them. I think this would not upset that many users.
This is just a raw draft proposal, a lot of details would need to be sorted out e.g. the percentage rate, what to do with overextension tax etc. But it's a new starting point for a further discussion ;)

Very interesting. I agree to most of it. Especially with your concerns with the winning (contender) teams in a particular league.

There is a definite need to change something, as we can't keep losing users if we want this game to continue. I get the feeling that the only way to truly fix everything in Buzzerbeater is to create a new version of it. Not a new game entirely, I would want the existing teams, players and history to carry over, but there's so much that could be improved, including many of the things that you touched upon, that I believe the game in it's current form is outdated.

I'm about to make my own thread on Global expanding on what I'm trying to say. As for this thread, I think the BB's need to reflect on most if not all of these ideas if they can understand them.

i don't think you've read my posts properly.

1) it's still a well known fact and there are plenty of conferences with that problem. You just don't seem to see it too often, but every country has atleast 1 if not more. As for more games per week, then you are evolving into a PPM type of game. we already got 3 games a week ( 2 competition + a cup/scrimmage game) More than enouhg

2) Getting up to II is doable in most nations. but the way your team is constructed, that is as far as you will be going. You've hit your limit and soon you'll start feeling annoyed by it. I've seen some teams go from V to I in 6 seasons time. so i know it can be done, but those are the exceptions. Still nice run. i doubt you'll be going much futher tho for a while now.

3) The reason they ain't interested is because they have nothing invested in them. if they do, they would have more interest in them. question is, do you want to keep U21/Nt a side show or do you want to give your community something to rally behind?

4) And this is what shows me that you aren't a starting manager. Not a single new user would complain about the game engine, since they don't understand how bad it is to build a team for the future, only to see a change in the game engine screw your entire long term planning. Don't fix what ain't broken! (ow and btw, if you got the knowledge to build a team and know how the game works, then it's rather easy to promote fast.)

5) forum dies because people don't want to invest in it. having BB's answering people means they aren't programming new features. You just got to know what you would prefer. them answering for your every small complaint here or them answering.


I'm sorry but i disagree with almost everything you've written down. Now i can spend time trying to point it out, with examples etc. However, that just won't help out this thread because it will simply become waaaay to long ( my original post was 22 posts, so i've already cut it in half and then some.

thx for taking the time to read through it tho.

as always, kind regards

Az~