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well, and I have to say that in Belgian top division I have always been able to stay in the top-part with wages that where lower than average for the entire league. I think it is the balanced end of the story that made that happen.
Also my 27k SF performed prety well in there too, while SGs of 50k where common and Cs of 80k as well.

Over the seasons teams keep evolving, and now you probably need a better one, but the wage of the SF will still be lower, and I am confident that the rate cost/performance is much better on the Sfs then on the other players.

So a team with 5 SFs will then be the best option?
no!
each position requires his own type of player, and 5 Sfs won't work.
I don't kow how they programmed it, and maybe it was sheer luck, but the GE magnificently succeeds in preventing some stuff, while make other things real.
Having a C play the SF spot and use inside offense will work, if you suprise your opponent, but if he is prepared and answers with the correct answer, you're busted. And so will the regular SF come out on top in most standard types of play.

So unless you are a money-creating machine that can maintain 4 players for each position, you either opt for the real positional players, which in most cases will perform well, or you opt for extra SGs or PFs, but become predictable and will suffer not being versatile enough to play a wide range of tactics without sacrificing performance.

Ofcourse all this is also just my theories based upon my experiences.
But I have been having decent SFs since I started out, and never regretted it, so there has to be some strength in them after all?

I've been training SFs since I started in Season 3. I totally reject the idea that training needs to be dumbed-down.

First of all, Apart from the very, very best SFs, the best SFs aren't considered by BB to be SFs, they are balanced SGs or PFs. A typical BB SF is defined more by what they can't do than by what they can and is generally a liability.

If you look at my roster, you won't see a mature player listed as a SF. What you'll see are extremley wage-efficient PFs and SGs, who can play either SF or PF (or Guard or SF) depending on the tactics I decide to use for the next game.

Points to consider when opting to train SFs.

It is an art form compared to training other positions but once you crack how to do it, it has a lot of benefits.

It's plain wrong to say that you have to play your SF trainees at PG or C, most of the time you play them at SG or PF, with occassional goes at SF in Wingman training. Most SF training is two-position training - and because of this you train 18 year olds for at least eight seasons*

*I would recommend carefully buying 20 or 21 year olds, then training them until they are 25, 26 or even 27.

You have to set up your arena well and be generating plenty of cash to train SFs, as you have to select your trainees very carefully and pay a good rate for them.

Benefits
You get great performance per salary dollar.
You get to buy in players from the over-stocked and devalued C and PG/SG markets, getting great value per transfer dollar
Your trainees are generally in demand when you decide to sell and you get a decent return on your training investment.

Downside
You have to be very careful in assembling your roster as often they also need to be effective out of position - or be prepared to regualrly buy and sell on the transfer list to get the right supporting cast.
Generally your team only gets to play at its optimal level a few times a season
You must sell your trainees when they are 26, any older and they lose their value. Or keep them until they can't play any more but then renewing your team becomes a significant challenge.

Last edited by Elmacca at 3/9/2011 6:18:55 PM

It's plain wrong to say that you have to play your SF trainees at PG or C, most of the time you play them at SG or PF, with occassional goes at SF in Wingman training. Most SF training is two-position training - and because of this you train 18 year olds for at least eight seasons*

Strange when you consider that 6 trainings on 10 are one position training so how do you train OD ID IS or Passing ?

OD/ID/Passing & IS all have two position training options, with your SF trainees playing either SG or PF.
One position training is simple and you see fast rewards for small number of trainees; it is not the only effective training model.

It's shocking to see how SF trainers here are completely contempt with the current training methods of having to play a SF at SG or PF for half the skills such as REB,PAS,OD,ID in at 2 or 3 positions. I mean I would assume especially those that train SF would want more to be able to have a guy play at SF and have the comfort of being able to have 1 or 2 position training like at PG or C. If you want a guy to play at SF and give him the normal productive training you have to play him not at SF the whole time until you decide to no longer to train him like when he's 26.

Its discombobulating for me to understand how those of you that try to train a SF are happy with the way things are now when you can have a one or two position training available to you like in the PG or C.

Because if it were that easy, everyone would do it and it wouldn't be worth doing any more.

Currently, the extra thought required to training SFs is rather nicely rewarded (over time). I don't actually care what position the extra thought is required, but it is good game design that it is required somewhere and SF actually seems the most sensible position to me.

Also two-position training does not yield half the skill up, that's incorrect. If you want decent estimates on training, search for the Coach Parrot thread, download the spreadsheet and study the calculators.

Although you do have to play your SF trainees at SG and PF, you also can still play them at SF in key games, those are the weeks you train Jump Shot or Outside Shooting with Wingmen training.

I might also suggest a more holisitic approach to training that sees training and tactics as parts of the same equation - and understand that both combined can offer you a better range of available tactics, more favourable mismatches on court at SG, SF and PF that add up to more wins per season for less wages, thus more arena revenue, etc., more profit per week, faster expansion possibilities and so on and so on.

SF training rocks, precisely because it's so bloody awkward that most can't be bothered.

Yeah I know a 2 position training is about 70-80% of 1 position training. The thing is that right now few people doing SF training cause PG or C are more efficient for training purposes. Even then you don't get a SF that's as valuable to the team as guards or center. So I disagree that everyone would do it because SF would still be inferior. There shouldn't be any implementation such that guard, forwards, or centers have an unequal advantage, right now guards and centers (putting salary topic aside) are balanced give or take but SF is inferior so something needs to be done to make it more equal and its clear that the training method is the cause of it.



Last edited by Coach_Gil at 3/10/2011 9:57:16 AM

I don`t remember who said in this forum: The people that whant to change SF training are not the ones who are training SFs, are the one who are not trainig them and want to do it in the easy way.

I think it resumes it preaty well.

Exactly, I'm forced to put one of my guys at PG simply cause I can't train him at anything eficient in SF