BuzzerBeater Forums

Yeah. For the most part. They cut salaries and thus their revenue increases (just like in BB).

i think that there are some differences between fan reactions of europe and usa. imo, loldots is right for most examples as he said. if fans really believe there are great talents and franchise players of future, they keep coming the arena and watch them. maybe, clubs' merchandising revenue aren't so high (but not ridiculosly low) however gate receipts will stiill be enoughly high.

okc is good example for this. i know that they went to a new city which boost their gate receipts but mostly fans came to watch the talents like kd, russwest. also wolves is another good example. if i am not wrong, their arena was full after years this year just because of kevin love's unusual performance and record. american fans can easily came to arenas, just a small excitement is enough for them. even in english premier league in europe, there are several examples like these.

as generel, i think that there are some supporting arguments and examples in nba for bbs. maybe we should acknowledge them to be right up to a point.

Sorry for offtopic. Some answers:

this may not be the place to talk about the necessity of preventing tanking but i can't miss this one..
$600k per week makes approximately $8M in a season (correct me if i'm wrong)..
now tell me what's the promotion chance of the other teams in your division..
you can buy two top quality salary-wise guards with this extra cash nowadays..

Yes 8M is quite correct.
Promotion chance in my current division is quite high. I'm not promoting with the money. I'm rebuilding my team and keeping money in the bank, but that's just me. In general, tankers of course have high probability to promote if they use the money wisely.

the worst thing is; you didn't need a single management skill to get such an advantage over the other guys relegated..
this is a short-term tactic with long-term effects..
it's all about justice and i can't understand how you can't feel for the victims..

True, tanker doesn't have to have any management skills during that tanking year. Just log-in, put line-ups, arrange friendlies and so on. However, to play in such position that you can tank requires some management skills, I think. Tanking gives you some benefits only in top divisions, remarkable financial benefits only in I.1 division.

All have same rules and regulations, so I don't see any victims here. If someone is tanking, you can also tank if you think that it is a good strategy for you. Also next year in lower division, if someone sees that there is no chance to promote, they can tank or rebuild own team as they want. Of course it's annoying if every year there is a tanker in your division who would like to promote. Then you must be smarter and manage your team better and find our way for promotion.

PS: i'm not criticizing what you did (hate the game, not the player)..
i'm criticizing your thoughts about tanking..

You have full rights to criticize my thoughts. Because we all have same options, I cannot criticize any strategies. Tanking is one possibility for everyone in this game.

right, we have to see but how the game will see this difference between talents and scrubs. an 18 year-old draftee has 5k salary and also scrubs have such a salary.

for example i promoted to 2. division this year in 4 seasons. not a short time but not too bad also. last season i was in really difficult league with 2 or 3 teams with better squads than me. and i see that there are some other teams who are waiting for next seasons with a good amount of money in the bank. i had to make a quick decision and i sold my trainees and stopped arena expands. i bought some 28-30 year old players and tried to be champion. because most teams were older than me and have better finance also. it looks like to me that i will be there some seasons till my young players become real good players. that means 2-3 seasons. probably i am not a good manager to find better ways and better managers could do better things but anyway i decided so.

then, i finished my job and saw that it's more difficult to promote first division. i decided to make a "rebuilding" but a real one. when i decided to this, i didn't know anything about high gate receipts of tanker teams. i learned it later from our national forums when i asked a question. (as you probably notice) so, i am going to buy 3 draftees because i can afford only such young players. 20 year-old good-trained players are expensive for me. but there is a bad feeling after i read all of those debates about tankers that some managers will see me as a tankers and attack me i when i have some successes in future and will say that i am not deserving. also the game will detect me as a tanker, but no problem with that. because i will not buy players to reach the PSF even, instead of buying players i will expand my arena.

also i think that it's not always good comparing the game and the real life. again okc example, when durant came to this league he was a draftee but not a scrub. he easily dominated some games in a league like nba. but in game our draftees in first leagues are just scrubs till 21-22 years. yes there is no nba team with a 3-79 record but when they start rebuilding they have some good players although they are too young.

but for me tools like PSF are not bad, i can live with them and there can be more tools. but there are more and more managers who treat tankers liken an evil and even some start for witch hunts. that's not good. i know that you don't have such feelings. but even you say that "a few hundred bucks tanking teams earn weekly is totally an undeserved income". so, i can say that there are lots of teams earning some "undeserved money" without tanking. there is a real gap between first divison's income and others. people always emphasize on first divisions but there are also other leagues. beside day-trading maybe the only way to catch the oldies is tanking for newer teams. in countries like turkey, spain or italy, this gap and lack of ways to have a real domestic success can be seen easily. when you prohibit people from day-trading or tanking, you should serve some alternative instruments to them to survive with others. and these actions should be taken simoultaneosly and because of this i have some good feelings for some tankers because they looks like behaviour knights. (but not all of them) the game should be more dyinamic, however it becomes more and more statiic and causes to caste systems.

again, i am not against tools like PSF or other suggestion against tanking. but when we focus on this problem, we should also focus on other problems because they are related with each other imo.

regards.

Last edited by GM-incow sk at 4/20/2011 7:14:09 AM

BBs are smart guys and this is just a piece of cake for them..
first of all, a rebuilding team doesn't lose all the games by +50 if it's rebuilding for the same division..
training 18-19 year-olds and selling all the strong players is not a way to rebuild for a top division team..
it should keep an average squad to get a few wins and protect it's fan base because nobody would want to watch a game when he knows his team will lose by +50..
you can do this in a third division and you can get some wins, so it's a rebuilding usual for a third division team..
training 18-19 year-olds in a top division without feeding any supporting figures is not rebuilding..

I have different opinion about rebuilding and recognizing that.
- it is possible that there are no such players for sale or even exists in BB, so you have only one option, train those from scratch.
- if you believe that you need such players which doesn't exists, you might be ready to focus on training even if you will not be able to compete in current division. Then if you are not able to compete, why not sell all other players also. Those players will be too old and wrong skill set when your training program is ready.
- so your target can be in highest divisions even if you start training 18-19years old players...

Of course I agree that it's weird and not right that fan and arena income remains so high if you are focusing on training only.

PS. I'm not going to say what kind of players I'm not able to find or even doesn't exists ;)

Last edited by Codemasters at 4/20/2011 8:04:13 AM

Like I said in another thread, I think one big problem is mixing the draft system of a NBA-like league, with a european-style promotion-demotion system.
In the NBA, teams don't tank to save money, they tank to draft prospects. In Europe, there is no incentive on tanking.
Yes, some teams don't have the money to compete, but they don't just "save up" during a couple of seasons and then buy a superstar. That doesn't happen. They just do the best they can, and try to build their brand.
So in europe, the closer to the top of the league, the better. If you tank, you end up being demoted and there is no draft.
In america, the further away from the middle, the better. Everybody can buy a few veterans to make the playoffs, but they usually have no chance to get past the first round. Fans also hate that. I'm a fan of Toronto, and this has been a tanking season. Yes, tickets will be a lot cheaper next year, but some fans do see the long term benefits of allowing young players to make mistakes and gain experience. However, if that meant the Raptors would be playing in the D-League next season, I can tell you the fans would NOT be happy.