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And again, in this case there is no argument agains auto-bidding, as you claim it does not change anything.

No, introducing auto-bidding would change the philosophy of the bidding and limit user interaction on the transfer list, and it would make the transfer system more complicated.

1) No it will not be more complicated.
Rookie-users could continue bidding online.
It will just start from the price set by the auto-bidding system.

2) The interaction is not about bidding. It is not a game that focus in bidding philosophy.
In addition. I didn't see any interaction besides the bidding itself in an auction at BB.
This game is about BB managing, and most of the interaction (and in much bigger scales) are regarding that - BB managing.

Basically if I need to define in one short sentence each claim against auto-bidding you gave it would have been:
1) It will not affect the chances of wining an auction.
2) There is no benefit of being able to be online anytime (kind of) on current system
Each of the above claims have been proved wrong.

No. I am saying there is an advantage in being online, and I even started by saying that I find it a good approach. An actual quote: "Giving advantage to those who are willing to spend some time is IMO actually a pretty good approach." However, due to supply of players, the advantage is generally rather insignificant for the majority of users. While auto-bidding increases one's chances of winning an auction at the lowest possible price, there are so many players on the market you are very likely to find as good a deal on the transfer market even if you would need to wait a couple more days. In addition, I do not believe the transfer market should be designed such that everyone is automatically going to get the best possible deal on any given player. Where's the fun in that? This is a game after all.

If I were asked to support auto-bidding in this game, the only argument I currently see relevant is convenience. Is it more convenient to just put in an auto-bid and forget about it? Sure. However, this gain would need to balanced against such factors as having fun on the transfer market (heated bid wars), complexity of the system (what we have now is a very simple system which everyone can understand with minimum effort, while a really useful auto-bid system would be more complex), giving some advantage to active users (contrary to what you claim I am saying, I actually think there is a small advantage for active users, and I believe it should be so), and even realism.

Anyway, I am not exactly attempting to shoot you down here, Pini פיני.

So let's write exactly your claims here and we will quote them.
1)

"Giving advantage to those who are willing to spend some time is IMO actually a pretty good approach."

So you are claiming:
a) There is an advantage being oniline whenever you can.
b) There is a reason why it should give this advantage.

The Q is - Is this game is about who can get online whenever he can or about BB managing?
The A is - it is about BB managing. No reason to give any advantage to those types of users, as it gices unfair advantage that is not related to BB managing.

2)

due to supply of players, the advantage is generally rather insignificant for the majority of users.

And here is the opposite claim.
There is no in between.
Or that it gives an advantage or not. period.

[There is more in the next message...]

Last edited by Pini פיני at 10/22/2011 8:13:02 AM

[Continuing previous message]

3)

I do not believe the transfer market should be designed such that everyone is automatically going to get the best possible deal on any given player. Where's the fun in that? This is a game after all.

Basically you are consistently contradicts yourself - now you are arguing:
It gives great advantage for frequent online users and we deserve it.
No you don't. This is BB managing an not anything else.

And yeah, the plan of this game to give fair chance to all to place their bidding.
I've never heard an auction goes to market in the worst time for most.

Generaly speaking you are suggesting any claim (that contradicts each other) in favor of keeping your advantage.
By that keeping this game narrow to much smaller community.

Why not just giving money upon time a person is active on site?
It is purely the same.

As the vote shows, it is not "flat out" me against the others, as you are trying to imply.

It is not supporise that those who tries to turn it down are those who enjoy exactly this unfair huge advantage.

Now again you returning to another claim saying that current system is "Fair and competetive".
And again I will argue that if it so there is no reason not to use auto-bidding, as it will not change any advantage that you here by claiming that is not existing.

And again I will remind you that after all the bids are received from the auto-bidders, the online bidders are free to play from that point, so no change for them either (and again as you claimed it will not make it unfair for them)

I will again remind you that you suggested them to set MAX price for the auction.
So it will not change the value starting from for the online users.

Basically you are jumping from one claim to another and not realy responding to arguments that ruled out each one of them.

In case the site's owner would like it to be a small community that could play 24/7, the current auction system is GREAT.
In case he wants it to be expanded, there is no argue that auto-bid system is much more competetive system and fair for a game that is about BB managing.

No offense but the auto-bid is a ridiculous idea. If a user isn't around to bid then too bad, go for the next one. Autobid would be a disastrous attempt to fix something that is not really broken.

I will repeat my claims here...

1) This game is about BB managing, not about who can get more online whenever he wants.

2) An auction in the real-world will be set to a time that as much participants (biders) could attend to.

3) Current system gives great advantage to a very narrow type of users. Otherwise (in case it will not change anything)you would not support it.
BB game is intended to be played by as much potential users there are.
By the current system defined there are much who have left the game or will be leaving the game.

Basically you didn't gave a claim that holds ground but just repeated arguments that are just irrelevant to BB managing and your main concern is to keep this unfair advantage, that you probably enjoys, in place.

Auto-bidding system will just make it more fair for all users, and by that will expand the amount of users playing this game.
A player that can't compete due to rules who gives great advantage to others, advantage that has nothing to do with BB managing, will just leave the game in the end.

Let's summarize this issue.
Here are the questions that are needed to be answered;

1) Question: Does it gives any advantage to narrow type of users?
Answer: Definately - users that can get online whenever they want through out the day can place better bids and be part of more bids.

2) Question: Does this game is intended to be played just by those type of users that can get online "whenever they want"?
Answer: No, it is intended to be played by variety of users. Most, cannot attend a bid or get active in BB whenever they can.

3) Question: Is BB managing is measured by how much time a day a manager itself can be free for setting deals with players?
Answer: No, it is not part of the BB manager!
The manager, in real-life, defines the max price for a player and its representative is requested to close the best deal he can.
Sounds like Auto-Bid system to me...

4) Question: Will users lose the fan of being part of a bid-war?
Answer: This calim is absurd.
Currenlty the claim to this majority of users is that they should put the MAX price from start, so what is the difference?
Those who favor of bid-war could start their bid-war from exactly that price (more precisely, a little bit less), when the auto-bid part ends.

5) Question: Is this suggestion is good, but just not important?
Answer: As the main point any game is to be fair, and to have as many possible users as can be (under the limitation that there is need to be a challenge in the game), it is most definately one of the top priorities.
Moreover, setting an auto-bid system is rather simple.

Last edited by Pini פיני at 10/22/2011 11:09:22 AM

Now this is just a bad excuse.x2

Are you on drugs and does your mom know? How are these bad examples. They are valid answers to your questions. It's not my problem that you can't understand them.
Players have 3 day transfer window. You have plenty of time to make your bid. You do not have to be online 24/7, so please stop stating that as a fact. Search the TL, if you are a supporter, bookmark them, if you are not, mark the players and times into a separate file. Check those players every time you log on (unless you plan to log in next after 3 days) and make bids according to your funds and if you can be online or can not be online, at the time of selling.
I asked you a direct question: What is the "correct" amount of logins per month/week/day? I need an answer. Let me remind you, that you in no way can suffle through TL in 5 minutes effectivly. So think it through thoroughly before you answer.

Basically you are arguing against it for one reason only - you can get online whenever you want, and it gives you great advantage.

What exactly are you basing this on? Do you know me? Look at my transfers, read my previous posts about how I have acquired my players. This game does not need you to be online 24/7 to be successful. It needs you to log on once every 2 days. The better your team gets, the less you need to log on.
So I will be waiting for your answer on the question above.

Last edited by Kukoc at 10/22/2011 9:44:53 AM

Well, except speaking dirty (and proving by that what?), you haven't raised any claim. Again.

You've asked a single Q though:

What is the "correct" amount of logins per month/week/day?

The answer is that searching the TL takes different time upon your limitations.
When you get to an higher league, you need better players and it is harder to find (I guess...).
Anyhow, I guess that one hour a day (and even less) is enough.

Although, this question is void.

The question is not how much time, but whether this player needs to get online whenever an auction he like is going on.
The answer to that - Definately no.
He can get online whenever he wants, choose the auctions interesting him and set an auto-bid.

And I will repeat one more time.
Setting the MAX bid is not like finding the best price you can get, which is what those very thin group of users can do.

I've put another message with Q and A.
Find a Q that you think the A is wrong.
Bring a claim and do not repeat Q already answered.
You are most definately defending a position with cause. Otherwise you wouldn't bring your false claims.

Why don't you just admit that you are one of those guys that can get online much more than the others and this is the only reason you are against it?

cause i am not, i just think your merging ideas aren't practical. And i didn't see your moinority on the old system.

You just keep repeating the same stuff, don't you? I'll play one more round, but that is it.

1) No it will not be more complicated.

Yes, it will. There will be more parameters to handle if you want to make the system useful. An important principle in BB is that the bid amount is frozen until the transfer completes or you are not the highest bidder anymore. This will either limit the usefulness of auto-bid (and there would at least seemingly be an advantage for those who have a lot of cash; I didn't really think this aspect through yet) or the system will require more complicated management. There are many potential issues: you may be in a situation where you preferred auto-bid will lag a less-desired one, or you are left wondering why your auto-bid never happened (e.g. if you ran out of money during the period and the bid therefore went inactive). You may claim that the system would not be more complex if you like, but you are just dead wrong.

Rookie-users could continue bidding online.
It will just start from the price set by the auto-bidding system.

Do you think this will put the new users in a disadvantage? Choose carefully. :-)

In addition. I didn't see any interaction besides the bidding itself in an auction at BB.

I did. For example, I have been several times in a bid war with the same team. I have been in bid wars with teams from the same league, with friends, etc. I have seen teams' bids because they may actually stay visible on the transfer list for a longer period in the current system.

So let's write exactly your claims here and we will quote them.
1)

"Giving advantage to those who are willing to spend some time is IMO actually a pretty good approach."

So you are claiming:
a) There is an advantage being oniline whenever you can.
b) There is a reason why it should give this advantage.

There is an advantage in the sense that you are there to make the call whether you want to go one higher as the auction is closing. This is a tradeoff in time. You spend the real-world time in the game to potentially land a player (a certain skill set) you want sooner than you would on average get a similar player (skill set) at potentially a lower price. I think this is appropriate, yes. I have seen no argument against this that actually holds water. Your argument (which I cut) is that this game is about BB management, which is not an argument that has much meaning. I am not even sure whether you mean 'basketball' or 'BuzzerBeater' by saying BB.

2)

due to supply of players, the advantage is generally rather insignificant for the majority of users.

And here is the opposite claim.
There is no in between.
Or that it gives an advantage or not. period.

There is no opposite claim. A small advantage is still an advantage, no? In majority of cases it is so insignificant that it does not matter much in the game. Try to see some shades of grey, please.

3)

I do not believe the transfer market should be designed such that everyone is automatically going to get the best possible deal on any given player. Where's the fun in that? This is a game after all.

Basically you are consistently contradicts yourself - now you are arguing:
It gives great advantage for frequent online users and we deserve it.
No you don't. This is BB managing an not anything else.

Now you are simply insulting me and the readers of this thread. I admit that I have not read your latest answers to other users carefully, because you seem to just repeat the same stuff over and over again. I am however not happy with your style of twisting other people's arguments and putting words in their mouth, which has become very apparent in your replies to me and others.

Generaly speaking you are suggesting any claim (that contradicts each other) in favor of keeping your advantage.
By that keeping this game narrow to much smaller community.

Why not just giving money upon time a person is active on site?
It is purely the same.

I have explained to you already that there is no contradiction. And I am most definitely not trying to keep some super advantage to myself. How do you come up with this stuff? Look at my transfers, count them, see when I started in this game. I have lost many more bid wars (in the dozens) than won (perhaps half a dozen), and given the activity level of the average user I believe an auto-bid system would rather increase than reduce any advantage that I may or may not have.

I'm done with this, thanks.