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Suggestions > Let Coach Decide option really needs work

Let Coach Decide option really needs work

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This Post:
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236069.7 in reply to 236069.6
Date: 2/17/2013 10:01:50 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
774774
You have an 18 yr old SS potential big man who doesn't even play or train

By all accounts, he has been playing and training said 18 y/o superstar. He doesn't have proficient GS from dumb luck you know. By looking at the game for 5 seconds, you could have seen that the 18 y/o is who he had at SG that game!
Let's stick to the LCD/SFDC issue.

Last edited by Kumiko (CAN U21) at 2/17/2013 10:02:28 AM

If you remember me, then I don't care if everyone else forgets.
This Post:
00
236069.8 in reply to 236069.5
Date: 2/17/2013 2:25:15 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
3131
In simplest terms possible: LCD if you are trying to win. SFDC with 9 players, 8 if 2-pos training, and everything filled if you are trying to train. If trying to do both, still SFDC. You are complaining about running out of gas when choosing to not fill up and drive with the gas light on.

Sure, the light's on, but the needle is pointing at "F". The machine is contradicting itself. LCD might work the way it was designed, but the design's obviously faulty. Otherwise, all five of my best players wouldn't be starting the fourth quarter with a 45-point lead. No real coach would do that, so the fact that it can happen in this game is problematic (even if this is just a game and not real life). If the engine can recognize a blowout with the other three lineups but can't with LCD, then LCD is the problem.

These things should be documented somewhere. I can't be the first one to have this problem.

This Post:
00
236069.9 in reply to 236069.8
Date: 2/17/2013 2:32:25 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
13691369
you´re riding a false perception here: you EXPECT the coach to act like a REAL coach, but it´s not "let Phil Jackson decide", it´s a "do everything needed to WIN THIS GAME". so why shouldn´t he run his starters in the 4th leading by 45? he has to make sure he wins, not thinking about anything else.

Zwei Dinge sind unendlich, die Dummheit und das All...
This Post:
00
236069.10 in reply to 236069.6
Date: 2/17/2013 2:37:04 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
3131
In simplest terms possible: LCD if you are trying to win. SFDC with 9 players, 8 if 2-pos training, and everything filled if you are trying to train. If trying to do both, still SFDC. You are complaining about running out of gas when choosing to not fill up and drive with the gas light on.

Sure, the light's on, but the needle is pointing at "F". The machine is contradicting itself. LCD might work the way it was designed, but the design's obviously faulty. Otherwise, all five of my best players wouldn't be starting the fourth quarter with a 45-point lead. No real coach would do that, so the fact that it can happen in this game is problematic (even if this is just a game and not real life). If the engine can recognize a blowout with the other three lineups but can't with LCD, then that's an issue with LCD.

You need to figure out what it is you are trying to do with your team and how best to accomplish. Also your arena is quite small. You can't be making money?

I'm averaging $53K net income per week, against a league average of $18K. Also, I'm going to make the playoffs (in an easy conference) with one of the lowest player payrolls in the league. Figuring out what to do will be easier as I learn how the game works... y'know, kind of like the learning experience I'm having in this thread.

This Post:
11
236069.11 in reply to 236069.10
Date: 2/17/2013 3:57:30 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
126126
53 k profit?

Post your economy page please, really curious?

This Post:
00
236069.15 in reply to 236069.3
Date: 2/18/2013 11:41:04 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
573573
you were blowing out the team and it went to garbage time, where the coach always takes the starters out for some rest and the bench in for minutes. it's how a typical blowout is supposed to be.

Except that the coach, given free reign, didn't and doesn't do that. The coach "always takes the starters out", except when using LCD. Also, this is a regular occurrence with LCD - I constantly see my starters play regular minutes under LCD, even in blowouts. Either this is a "feature, not a bug", or LCD is faulty.


Are you certain in those other games that "garbage time" was truly triggered? Open the play by play, and search for garbage time. In you last game, garbage time was called with <1 min to go in the 3rd quarter. When this happens, the coach will try and remove all starters from the game (regardless of whether it's LCD or SFDC - I think the main exception is LCD with a blanked lineup).

In these cases, in order to maximize the chances that your player of interest (typically a trainee) doesn't get removed at garbage time, you have to limit the number of players on the bench. In that case, usually the backups at the other positions will get subbed into the game, leaving your trainee still in the game. This is why people suggest to field only 9 players in the lineup when trying to get a guy 48 minutes. If you've gotten it to work with LCD in the past, it may be that your starter was much better than the guys on the bench.

I conceptualize it as follows:

Everytime there's an opportunity to make a substitution, the coach looks at his starters and the possible guys on the bench. Then, he makes a judgement about their relative abilities, as affected by their stamina and minutes played thus far. He looks at every player on the bench, but weighs them by their position on depth chart. If the option on the bench is better than the guy on the floor, he'll make a change. So, a guy off the depth chart can be inserted, but his ability must be much much better than the alternative for it to happen. Also, when garbage time is called, these rules change a bit, and the coach may make more changes, when the result is taking out the starter.

When the sub pattern is set to LCD, I think the coach just goes with whoever is best. With SFDC, I suspect the switch is usually made when the starter gets to a certain level of reduced ability, due to stamina.

These rules lead to some odd happenings.

All cases, relatively crappy backups won't play as much (since even the stamina decreased starter is still better).
In SFDC, high stamina guys with better skills than their backup may play the entire game.
In SFDC and garbage time, the player in all three spots of the depth chart (starter, backup, reserve) can get subbed out in the last few minutes if a starter on the bench is much better (say you're training a guard at PG, and the SG starter is really good, much better than your trainee. When garbage time is called, the starter SG goes to the bench. He sits there until the end of the game, as the trainee PG gets worse, and the SG improves from rest. At some point, even with SFDC, the coach may insert the SG into the PG position).

As far as SFDC, you should fill in all the depth chart gaps, and definitely the starters. You won't forfeit, as long as there are guys in the active lineup, but the coach chooses total crazy players at bad positions, e.g. centers at PG. hrudey once suggested that bot teams use SFDC with blank lineup, and after accidentally using that in some PL games, I agree.

This Post:
33
236069.16 in reply to 236069.15
Date: 2/18/2013 4:00:59 PM
white snake
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
72467246
Second Team:
Black Forest Boars
Everytime there's an opportunity to make a substitution, the coach looks at his starters and the possible guys on the bench. Then, he makes a judgement about their relative abilities, as affected by their stamina and minutes played thus far. He looks at every player on the bench, but weighs them by their position on depth chart. If the option on the bench is better than the guy on the floor, he'll make a change. So, a guy off the depth chart can be inserted, but his ability must be much much better than the alternative for it to happen. Also, when garbage time is called, these rules change a bit, and the coach may make more changes, when the result is taking out the starter.

When the sub pattern is set to LCD, I think the coach just goes with whoever is best. With SFDC, I suspect the switch is usually made when the starter gets to a certain level of reduced ability, due to stamina.

I have a federation where we analize the tactics and LCD. We are allready at the point, that we have an excel tool which can predict the starting line up of your team. sometimes the line up is a little bit different, but we are really close.
Our starting point was: every player has five ratings. One for PG, one for SG, one for SF, one for PF and one for C. This rating is not the same like the one in the boxscores. We call it the "engine-rating". When you play LCD, the engine calculates the best team. And the best one would be a team with the highest rating. Like you said, everytime when there's an opportunity to make a substitution, the engine calculates the highest possible line up and makes the changes. the main target with LCD is to win the game. an if possible, as high as you can.

What is important for this engine rating? Every position has its own combination or weight of importance. So you have to "guess" and try some combinations. Also, stamina and free throws are included.

Garbage time: We came to the conclusion, that as soon as the garbage time starts, the engine ignores your line up. If you have a player on SG and he should play the whole game... it won't happen. Don't ask me why. I don't know it yet.
We tried it several times and only some of us were successful with 48min. But there wasn't a garbage time. The games were always close or had a difference of maximum 30 points. I tried it too and my player had sometimes 48 minutes and the next time 45 minutes -.-

This Post:
00
236069.17 in reply to 236069.11
Date: 2/20/2013 8:01:25 AM
Woodbridge Wreckers
DBA Pro A
Overall Posts Rated:
13931393
He got about 100k ticket income and 80k salaries, so another 30k from TV Contract/Merchandise (with scouting and staff substracted) isn't unrealistic right?

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