BuzzerBeater Forums

I think its hard to define it is 'best defender on best scorer'

their best scorer from the game might come somewhere else, because you defended their best scorer. Ironic.

Ive always assumed that Outside Box is - your best OD player. whom he defends? the best outside shooter from the opposition.
Is this the player that would have normally taken the most outside shots? not necessarily.

happy to hear otherwise from people. Ive played this defense a few times, so I might have some data I can scrounge up.

Ive always assumed that Outside Box is - your best OD player.

That's not very true in my experience. My SF got picked last time over a guard with 6 extra OD levels...

Bottom line, Obox-1 seems downright terrible. Ratings are ok, but the results are disgusting. It might work against patient if you also have your best defenders concentrated at one position but that's about it. I think even 1-3-1 is better than Obox-1.

Ibox-1 seems to be working better. Quite possibly because it does not completely mess up the key defensive assignment.

yes it does work against Patient offence quite well.

How do you know that your SF was picked as the and1 defender?

Well I was playing against R&G, not patient, but even if the guard got picked, the SF defended most of the outside shots. My opponent had 1 dominant scorer, but he played him off the bench, that might have messed up things too.

Either way I badly lost this game, the end result is closer but it wasn't that close when I watched: (79191134). If either his SG or PG was guarded 1 on 1 by my C out of position (my usual SG) they should have been killed defensively, instead his SG was guarded by my SG (who is normally my backup SF and was coming back from injury) and the rest was a zone defense

the SF defended most of the outside shots.

ahhhhhh but you see this is where it gets tricky.

just because a player takes the most shots in the game, doesn't mean the Boxn1 should defend them. Does it?
So maybe your And1 defended the best outside offensive player, and shut him down, and so the opposition had to revert to a different player shooting their shots. This player happened to be defended by your SF who was in the box.

so any assumptions made that 'their best offensive player is the guy who shoots the most shots in the game' is actually not always true.

Well the guy who was defended by my SF was the opponents SG. He went down in the second quarter and by then he had already taken 11 shots in 15 minutes (scoring 17 points).

so any assumptions made that 'their best offensive player is the guy who shoots the most shots in the game' is actually not always true.

This is the game: (79191134). You're a supporter so you can run the play-by-play through Buzzer Control or other software. Moutlinho/Hrudey already found out this though: (220862.1) and specifically (220862.9).

I must admit I did use OBox1 both because I thought my opponent would play patient and because I knew they had that discussion in the past and wanted to double check.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 2/27/2015 8:58:43 AM

its interesting, because in that thread, the same assumptions are being made.
the assumption is that - best defender will defend the best offensive player (who is the player that takes the most shots).

or in those threads, they have made the assumption, that because Player X, was being defended by player Y, that player Y was selected as the best defender.

And this is my point - MAYBE - this is an incorrect assumption. Hear me out.

In the scenario in that linked thread, they clearly identify player X as the key offensive player. Which id say is right.
However, the assumption is made that - because Player Y defended the majority of the shots that Player X took, that Player Y is the defender assigned as the 'And 1'
..... think about real life basketball. If you are the 'And 1' M2M defender, the opposition will generally screen you, or try to run pick's and plays, which make you NOT defender. ie: Backdoor cuts, which make your team-mate the defender.

So MAYBE in that linked game, the defender identified as the 'And 1' was NOT the PF who defended all the shots. Maybe Player X just dribbled into the corner, had the 'And 1' screened off the ball, and as such, the PF had to come out of the box and defend player X.

Am i making sense?
IM not saying im right, im just debating over the assumptions that are made and that we know whom the 'and 1' player is.

Last edited by Coach Regan at 2/28/2015 4:44:03 AM

its interesting, because in that thread, the same assumptions are being made.
the assumption is that - best defender will defend the best offensive player (who is the player that takes the most shots).

or in those threads, they have made the assumption, that because Player X, was being defended by player Y, that player Y was selected as the best defender.

And this is my point - MAYBE - this is an incorrect assumption.

I missed this thread earlier, but there's one other assumption that is being made - if you read the game manual for the box and one defenses (in the tactics section), it never says the best defender is the man to man guy, and it always refers to it as the "fifth player" or "fifth defender".

I tended to see my SF picked a lot way back when I tried out these defenses.

Guys, why do you start new discussions about already clear things every couple of months?

Before the game, the engine takes both teams. It calculates, based on the skills, who is the best offense player and who is the best defense player. Nothing more and nothing less. The defense player isn't the guy with the highest OD or ID, it's the player with the highest overall defense. And that's the one who has the best OD+ID+SB+ST rating. For a lot of teams it's the SF or PF.
This defender will play against the best engine calculated offense player. Based on the defense power of the +1, there are three possible outcomes:
1) the defender sucks and the offense guy will score like he wants
2) defense and offense are equal and the offense player will have problems, but will be still one of the dominant players
3) the defender is a beast and shuts the offense player down

If 3) is the case, the engine will switch to another scoring option. So it can happen, that your +1 defender plays against a guy who takes only five or six shots during the whole game. The reason for this is his high defense.
The other four guys will play with their box against the offense of the opponent. And the engine will decide who is the new scoring option. So the guy who takes most of the shots is only scoring option nr. 2 in reality.

And there is more stuff to the boxes than I don't want to reveal. I have to be sure that I still have some advantages left for my own teams and the german NT.

You forgot one ...

4) Mismatch: The best defender is an outside defender and the best offensive player is an inside player, or the other way around. Chaos ensues.