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You may not understand this since you are not one of the teams who can reasonably compete in the cup, but the Cup/Tournament currently is often the largest random factor affecting D1 leagues and to a lesser extent D2 leagues, much bigger than injuries. ...

I can understand because I play at a similar game and I'm playing in the first division since 3 seasons... and some player claims the same things against the cup randomisation... curiously, it's always claimed in the name of newbie by experimented players, always with the goal to save the game but in fact to facilitate the game for experimented teams.... the choice to be done between cup and league is one of the spice when playing seriously... why change the game to facilitate the cup for the top teams ?

You are seriously mistaken if you think a D2 team will have a chance against most D1 teams and that any kind of change to the cup will alter this reality in any meaningful way.

The choice between cup and league is MUCH EASIER at any level than the choice between league and league games. In the second instance there is no escape. Even teams that now finish 22-0 with +700 PD would be unlikely to win 22 games if they had 3 league games per week, because something's gotta give and people will know you cannot play your best lineup every game. At the very least you'd have to mix it up or throw one of the 3 league games. Pretty much you'd need bots in your league to go for 22-0 and hope that games against those bots are spread out.

So you are in fact advocating for the opposite of spice. You are advocating for very easy choices about which game to throw, choices which have a limited impact on yourself, but have potentially an enormous impact on others (this is because if I win 21 games and throw 1 game, that team who benefited from that extra W or massive PD difference will end up with a much better standing than it deserves). So you want the game to be easy: the way the cup was changed in the past already made it easier for weaker teams. For people like you, who were crying because they had tough match ups in the first or second week, they made sure everyone played bots at the beginning of the season.

The logical solution is to change the cup into something different: simply make it an international tournament: those in BBB play BBB and if you are D2 or D3, you get a mini random tournament for D2 or D3 teams, maybe determined by team World Ranking or something: a sort of a private league with cash prizes, so everyone has a chance to win. And these tournaments should have lower cash prizes for wins like they get for a win in the B3.

The illusion that the cup mean anything to teams in D2 and below, that someone at that level is actually trying to win it, is laughable. The cup is a cash cow for 95% of BB teams: if you are a lower division team you simply hope you are lucky enough you avoid better teams so you can get a little extra weekly money. And sure enough, that extra money is a lot of money for a D4 team, but NOBODY will carry a 700k roster in D2, D3 or D4 to compete for the cup.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/18/2020 7:47:51 AM

I'm sorry, but I fully disagree. More you write and less I approve. There is absolutely no interest for a new player, so it will absolutely not help the game to survey. It's only for old players which are bored to play since a long time and search new things... but any change to maintain old players will never save the game, only preserve advantages to be in the game since a very long time.

And please don't assume my thoughts, you get it wrong every time.

I let you answer for yourself.

hahaha, what a tosser. Let's hear what you have to propose to make this game easier for new players. Go on, indulge me.

And when you do, you'd do well to remember that:
- I can find you at least 10 posts and heated arguments, where I asked for a bigger arena for new users in the past, although I would have got no benefit whatsoever from it. The devs gave you a bigger arena.
- I asked for less tanking and reducing the economic advantage of higher leagues. Done, D1 has a much higher salary floor as a percentage of total salary than lower divisions and now there are many more teams than before that earn more money in D2 than in D1.
- Game too hard to learn. I didn't ask for this, but they gave you a tutorial, just in case reading the manual or RiP's guide ws too hard on the eyes.
- 99.9% of initial team players were total bums when I started, I among others asked for better initial players for new users like you. They gave you star players and sensibly increased the quality of initial players.

Apart from all the spoon feeding above, that you ALREADY have, tell us what else you want mate, so we can decide whether to have a laugh or cry. Do you want not to have to compete for trophies and promotions? Free promotions for all? Do you want to have a way to make tens of millions in 1 season?


Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/18/2020 10:22:47 AM

I would add a cup tournament for each division (in a country or across countries)

How would it work in practice across countries (can't really do by national division since D1 only has 16 teams, so it would just be another league with the same teams)?

Keep in mind that if you do this with the current schedule, you need to find very robust criteria for the pooling to be fair because the cup schedule determines both GS and Enthusiasm. So you can't put the #1 team in a country (e.g. 800k salary) with a bunch of D1 teams at or below the floor (e.g. 4-500k) and the #2 team in the same country (also 800k salary) against other strong teams (e.g. 900k salary). Same for any other division level.

The current system is fair because everyone in your league has the same chance to play a bot and has the same chance to play the same teams. The draw is down to luck, but at least the deck is not stacked against you: all teams in your league are in the same boat.

At the very least you should pool together whole leagues, but the problem does not end there: bot promotion is across leagues. So what happens if D3.1 is pitted against very tough human D3 leagues and D3.10 is pitted against near full-bot leagues? Teams in D3.10 will have an easier time to get a good record in the league because of all the bots they are playing in the cup...while D3.1 will have to either go out early or sacrifice some wins in the league and struggle for GS and Enth.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/18/2020 10:51:40 AM

Rare? It's next to impossible to win, because several rounds are played on neutral grounds and with playoff Enth. So even if you were lucky enough to get there, D1 teams do not throw games against D2 teams at that stage. In fact they will throw league games and go all out in the cup...and they have a 2-300k salary advantage over D2 teams.

Weird stuff happens (261388.1) (72600399), but you'd need to dodge good D1 teams until the final and then hope for injuries or...that he forgets to set the lineup, like Crossley did in s28.

What you listed are all cases where the better team gave up (completely or in part) the cup game to do better in the league. The reasons you don't see 16 D1 teams are simple:
- the draw is random, so a D1 can play a D1 team and know him out. As I said elsewhere, one season I played 4 D1 teams in the first 6-7 rounds
- weaker D1 teams may focus on the league to avoid relegation and give up on the cup

Stronger D1 teams rarely give up on the cup (because they have no problem getting in the playoff with a good seed even giving up a few league games), so it's usually other D1 teams that knock them out.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/18/2020 11:20:02 AM

Speaking of changes, wanna talk about the awful current training system?

I really don't because this is not reversible and I'm pretty sure any change or proposal about training will lead to endless discussions. It's also a bit harder to implement than scheduling routines.

hrudey did have a sensible proposal years ago that was widely discussed and was quite smart. Now I'm bummed because while I was searching for the thread I found out that both Manon and hrudey are bots.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/18/2020 11:50:41 AM

I found out that both Manon and hrudey are bots

what happened there? some other GM banned them?