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Outside Box-and-One

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220862.8 in reply to 220862.6
Date: 6/27/2012 3:41:21 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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By the way, is the "Ask the BBs" thread still there? I can't seem to find it. If I remember correctly, the BBs posted something about box-and-one defenses there.


From Manon's link, I tracked down the specific post:
(208622.117)

While I can't disclose all the details, I can give you a general idea of how the BaO defense works. Before the game starts, both the best offense and defense players are calculated based on their skills, with the offense/defense type in mind. You cannot "set" those players, but you can probably guess who they would be, using some rational thinking and common sense. It was intentionally coded that way. Those player roles remain the same even after substitutions occur, so there are no changes during matches. I may have even said too much already


If the defense type is involved in the calculation, barring some extremely unusual builds, I don't see how a PF could have been selected as the primary defender for an outside shooter who plays at the guard spot. Well, except if this is another one of those hidden cases where shotblocking is supposed to be useful and is therefore factored in heavily in the player selection.

Last edited by GM-hrudey at 6/27/2012 3:41:34 PM

From: Kukoc

This Post:
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220862.10 in reply to 220862.1
Date: 6/27/2012 5:04:50 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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This is an intresting thread. I have not used outside box in seasons 19-20 (there have not been many one scorer teams). I did use it in S18 and I did use it in S17 with a few inside boxes for flavor. I did have a few weird results, where the main scorer actually did score more than his average was. Either there is a bug in picking the right defender or the defender chosen has still too low defence to do the job. Still with one defender on him the whole time and the team helping out in a zone, I would expect more dishes from the player than shots. Perhaps this is the weakness of the GE, there is no double team help defence. Here the first defender no longer contributes to defence value, when the switch happens.

This Post:
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220862.11 in reply to 220862.9
Date: 6/27/2012 5:37:31 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
game engine made the correct pick while deciding "the one" in the opponent's team..
we understand this because he was always defended by the same guy..
but the defender was picked incorrectly..
if we have made a survey and asked the users who should be "the one" on defense against this Patient, i'm sure %95 of them would pick the Swiss guard correctly..

maybe someone should tell BBs how Patient works..


I agree completely. I am just interested in trying to figure out the specific details of the fault, as in the one game that I played it in the previous season the selection was much more sensible. I actually think in theory that the box and one could be useful against a patient, but of course if it's not possible to ensure that the man defender is actually who it should be then it makes it a far less desirable tactic indeed.

This Post:
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220862.13 in reply to 220862.8
Date: 6/28/2012 10:15:29 AM
Manila Bombers
PPL
Overall Posts Rated:
216216
Maybe you are right about using OD + ID + SB for calculating the defense. In your game did the fifth player have the highest OD + ID + SB? In my case using OD + SB should select Caetta (PG) while OD + ID + SB selects Conley (PF) correctly.

But I agree that this way of calculating the fifth player does not seem nice.

Last edited by Greedy at 6/28/2012 10:18:35 AM

This Post:
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220862.14 in reply to 220862.13
Date: 6/28/2012 10:25:37 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
Maybe you are right about using OD + ID + SB for calculating the defense. In your game did the fifth player have the highest OD + ID + SB? In my case using OD + SB should select Caetta (PG) while OD + ID + SB selects Conley (PF) correctly.


The player it picked for me was in fact the highest OD+ID+SB player on that lineup (would not have been highest OD+SB, though). Of course, I think the same player would have been the highest OD + ID guy as well.

Has anyone seen a case where it's picked a player starting as a guard for the man to man guy? (Not including defensive switches out of the guard position, though that would be kind of screwy in the first place). I wonder if it might instead pick the highest OD among the three non-guard players.

In any case, I think moutlinho's idea of posting this to the bugs forum may be appropriate. I tend to want to try to figure out the reason for this but I think it's something that should be addressed when engine fixes are someday addressed.

This Post:
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220862.15 in reply to 220862.12
Date: 6/28/2012 10:46:54 AM
Manila Bombers
PPL
Overall Posts Rated:
216216
I am beginning to think that this is more of maybe not a good design rather than a bug? Also, the Bug forum rules look pretty intimidating. :P

Maybe the BBs are taking a step in trying to fix the game engine. See the post about princeton here (220216.2).


This Post:
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220862.17 in reply to 220862.3
Date: 6/28/2012 11:50:17 AM
Milwaukee Lethargy
III.8
Overall Posts Rated:
849849
Second Team:
Miłwaukee Lethargy
nice job by you here: (220862.3)
didn't see that post til now. definitely one to save!

Last edited by shikago at 6/28/2012 11:50:39 AM

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