BuzzerBeater Forums

Well, i can tell you for a fact that my center has almost SB as high as his IS, and it isn't helping one bit ! Go figure !

Sad but true. it will not happen for 2 good reason.

1. too many manager play it and the market is over stacked with LI players and low post players. it would really ruin the market.
2. to many supporter play it. this would kill the owners money.

I think he or they should get rid or LI or low post.. One of them has to go. No point in having both the game already in favor of the big man every tactic can make a big man score.

I think Manon said it best "if you have a good outside defense, you can stop any team'. But LI is way to hard to stop I think because a lot of team guards don't inside defense. That is kicker in my opinion. I debated it with him. I haven't seen him lately but I think im right, the time I won versus it was when my guards where better defenders inside and outside...

If we didn't get 8-10 steal in guard area I didnt win, any below that was a lost.

Well, i can tell you for a fact that my center has almost SB as high as his IS, and it isn't helping one bit ! Go figure !

I have to disagree. My player Sutherland has SB 17 and he dominates his opponents. I checked the league games and his defensive numbers:
137 actions against him
- 104 were successfully stopped by Sutherland
- 48 from this 104 were Shot blocks
- 33 were failures
- out of this 33 there were only 9 shooting fouls.

to sum up:
he stopped almost 76% of all actions against him (so opponent bigs have a FG% of 24% if Sutherland defends them). his SB % is at 35% (48 SB out of 137). and his shooting foul % is at 6.5%.

My german trainee Haek isn't that far yet. But his OD+ID+SB is at 37 atm. Still increasing. His numbers are 72% successful stopped (79 out of 110); 26 blocks and only 4 shooting fouls. and he's playing against 40k+ salary big guys with his 7k salary.

it takes time to train the right guys. but it's already possible to stop LI teams.

I agree. only hope we have some one of your caliber or level in the game tell how to super improve 2-3 zone. Only comfort right now versus LI is 3-2 zone. But over the course of the game so far.. a lot have figured out to dominate that with LI.

Me personally I would get radical and say scrap Li all together, no point in having low post and look inside. A lot would hate that.

Running a 3-2 against LI in most cases is foolish. There are scenarios where it's worth considering, but currently the way the engine works makes it an inefficient choice.

While there are some systemic issues in the salary formulas that make LI more attractive (JR costing a lot in SG formula, which also makes OD much more expensive, vs. the PG formula where OD is cheap) and a few engine issues (e.g., foul propensity), there's also a major component of LI dominance that's user driven. For many seasons now, LI has been the de facto "serious" offense to run, so people are training players in that direction. If you do a search on the TL for 14+ID, 14+RB, 14+ IS and 9- SB, you get 181 results. If you change it to 9+ SB and look for a maximum of 9 IS, you find three guys, none of whom are remotely special.

The point is that if you're looking for big men for a non-inside offense you'd have to build them yourself or settle for what the LI guys want. And even if every user in the game started training guys for defending LI when the change was hinted at last season, it's still way too early to have had any shift in what's available in the TL. And of course the number of people changing training regimens to build those players is not going to approach the entire userbase - and many more who will wait and see.

But scrapping LI isn't the answer either - there needs to be multiple options for inside attacks because of pace - outside has R&G and motion, neutral has PTB and Patient plus base offense, and there's Princeton which is its own animal. I don't expect to run LI much at all if ever other than if the other team's personnel makes dictates that, but eliminating it is the wrong answer.

Thank God someone has given numbers which may serve as a proof that SB is not useless. There is no way you'll ever convince people to train SB, unless you give them transparent numbers.

It's a damn shame GE wasn't changed during his U21 year. That was our SB project!

I know. ;) and I had him in my bookmarks for 2 seasons. and when he hit the transfer list and I had the money... ;)
our Varakis has almost the same skills like Sutherland with 21y. Sutherland was a kind of a blue print for Varakis. unfortunatly it's harder on the U21 level... just take a look at Latvija and their 3 bigs. you can't stop them with only one such player.

Last edited by Nachtmahr at 7/27/2013 2:02:03 PM

I don't think its impossible to run a good outside team. But it does take awhile to find the right players.

Excellent jump shooters with handling and driving that have an OK range and passing...these types of players seem to do OK in Run N Gun.

Finding specialist rebounders is not a problem.

The biggest issue is finding specialist defenders/shot blockers in the post position.

But getting the other pieces of the puzzle is fine enough to run a good outside team. They can compete against LI teams...but will not likely be as salary efficient overall. Close though and its worth it IMO as the players cost less IMO to buy.

I don't think its impossible to run a good outside team. But it does take awhile to find the right players.

This isn't a GE problem, its an opportunity for good managers and trainers to make money in building players that the market is lacking.

Make JR and SB cheaper. So teams can afford to make perimeter shots and defend the rim. Right now IS and OD are dominating, leading to tons of LI/M2M cookie cutter teams.