BuzzerBeater Forums

BB Hellas > [ΕΘΝΙΚΗ U21] Συζήτηση

[ΕΘΝΙΚΗ U21] Συζήτηση (thread closed)

Set priority
Show messages by
From: fd97

This Post:
00
216610.80 in reply to 216610.79
Date: 6/11/2012 1:52:11 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
6262
Ειναι φανερο οτι φετος δεν μας θελει...μια η ηττα απο τους Μολδαβους, μια η δυσκολη νικη απεναντι στους Δανους, ερχεται σημερα το τελειωτικο χτυπημα.Σημερα κυριολεκτικα σπασαμε τα καλαθια.Η ευστοχια μας ειναι αθλια.Πηραμε ακριβως τον ιδιο αριθμο σουτ.Αυτοι ειχαν 40 και εμεις 27 στα 78!Μας πηραν περισσοτερα ριμπαουντ,στα επιθετικα ημασταν καλυτεροι με 3 παραπανω που σημαινει οτι καναμε 3 επιθεσεις παραπανω!Με τα πεντε παραπανω λαθη αυτοματως τους δωσαμε τις 3 παραπανω επιθεσεις μας εχοντας αυτοι 2 επιθεσεις παραπανω...παρολα αυτα καναμε τα ιδια σουτ!Και στις βολες τεραστιο προβλημα 8-17 με 14-24 για τους αντιπαλους!

Τελος παντων δεν πιστευω οτι για αυτο ευθυονται οι προπονητες της Εθνικης, γιατι οποιοσδηποτε με αυτο το υλικο ειδικα με τις καταστασεις τραυματισμους κλπ δεν θα ειχε τεραστια τυχη!Αλλα η αληθεια ειναι περιμενα τουλαχιστον την προκριση.Στηριζομαι στον παραγοντα γκαντεμια!

Οσο για το φυλλο αγωνα μικρες διαφορες μοιρασμενες

From: Koperboy

To: fd97
This Post:
00
216610.81 in reply to 216610.80
Date: 6/11/2012 4:07:36 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
952952
Sorry guys, but I couldn't restrain myself from posting this.

I ran your posts through google translate because I'm always scouting my next opponent in all areas. I read about your postgame analysis a bit too and it seems to me like you're searching in all wrong places. Where is a good Greek manager to tell you what's what?

As you all know, a good SF or PF is very hard to train. Especially in a short time of three seasons. So what are three most-trained positions for U21? PG and C, and after that SGs. We all know (actually I'm not sure you all know by reading your posts) that Outside defense is being trained A LOT. OD is actually the highest skill on most outside positions since it completely stops JS and JR, and to some extent Passing. That's why SGs are not very common these days in U21. Have you seen Quennet of France U21? He had Proficient game shape against us in previous game and he didn't even start! A very smart move by French U21 manager.

So nearly every outside U21 player is being trained the same - Look inside style (almost no JR, good PA and DR). It goes without saying then that the most viable U21 tactic is Look inside, by far. Not only because players are being trained this way, but also because Look inside (and Low post) is the most effective tactic against high OD. The worse tactics against OD are slow outside based tactics - Motion, Princeton and Patient, although Patient is not completley outside based. Slow tactic makes players search for a great shot. If they can't find any, they will shoot under 5 seconds of attack, where accuracy of shot - and therefore, its' chance to go in - is very bad. Fast tactics allow players to try good and mediocre shots, but never great ones like in slow tactics (Look inside, Run and Gun).

Since OD of U21 guards is so high, that "great shot" of slow tactics can rarely be found and many shots are being taken under 5 seconds, resulting in very low FG%. That's why slow tactic is very useful against opponent with great offense and bad defense, but at its' worst against good defense. And as all the good U21 countries have guards with 14+ defense, slow tactics are a suicide (save for Low post). Look at our match from Germany, when they played Motion.

I think I also saw something from your coach in these posts...something like "Slovenians are weak on SF spot, that's why I chose to play Patient". Hello? We are playing with three PGs the whole time! If you want us pay for having a PG on SF spot, then play a Center on SF! Running Patient or Motion against three PGs is like hitting the wall with your head.

So there you go. I'm sorry if this post seems cocky or dumb or whatever, but I just had to let it out. And btw...if you will play better because of my post, that's better for us. Right?

Last edited by Koperboy at 6/11/2012 4:08:43 PM

This Post:
00
216610.82 in reply to 216610.81
Date: 6/11/2012 5:09:19 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
173173
someone has done his homework as I can see :P

Most of the above that you say sound great in a pink bubble of dreams to be honest... what exactly would you do if you were in our place, and had only 2 guards with good passing and the rest are at 7-8? Would you still play an inside tactic? I suppose that you do know that this would lead to many outside shots or inability to put the ball into the box.

And about the weak position on the SF spot. We knew that you play with 3 PGs and we also knew that you used a tall dude as a sub there. So you still think that a SG with good inside skills at that position was a bad choice? That man should have burnt your basket and not the seats behind :P

About the tactic explanation, let me give you some better homework for next time because we have won many times inside tactics with good OD. If you do play with 3 PGs (and I suppose with not so good outside shooting skills) then you risk your whole game on your big buys.
1. You were lucky that your PF was not suspended on fouls (or even more, he did 0 fouls) Its a guy with 3,7 fouls per game this season, and above 2,5 on all seasons if you haven't noticed.
2. I am not really convinced that your big guys are that better than ours. That means that they shouldn;t be able to score that easy and would need to pass the ball right back to your guards and they could shoot from middle-range distance. But no, your Rocky Balboa and Rambo outmanned our guys.
3. And apart from that, our OD should have been pretty good to stop the easy passes. Just today your shorties were passing with three hands.

And by the way... I never questioned your victory... you were the better side today, but if you think that today's match was a 30 points difference, then something is wrong, either with me, either with you :)

The only thing that I said was that your side was really lucky today... How could you logically explain the fact that against 14-15 ID you scored 55%? How could you logically explain that your PF did 0(!) fouls and won 6 or 7? (it wouldn't really change much, but just making a point here that luck was at your side)

I won't apologize about my post's attidute, cause you came here trying to convince us that you did a good job, sorry I don't buy it. BUT I am sorry if you really think that you dully deserved such a big win today, I hope the above might help you in the future, so that you won't really need to arrange TIEs and etc. Right? ;)

This Post:
00
216610.84 in reply to 216610.83
Date: 6/11/2012 5:21:55 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
173173
Κοίτα που θα αρχίσω τα γκρικλις ξανά με τους μακάκες....

nai re matsa den lew oti exei entelws adiko....(an kai opws eksigisa kai parapanw to thewrw risko na paei ksekathara se 3 pgs- 2 psilous giati kai dmi na deis kai ola, oi psiloi tou den einai tooooso kalyteroi apo tous dikous mas + oti o vasikos tou pf dernei... san na erxomoun egw kai na se kerdiza persi me ton Ruiz me 0 faoul... ti tha eleges?). kai egw tha ithela shmera na paizame me 3 13-14ares pases kai na tous "ξεσκίζαμε τα φάρδουλα" (try to translate this also :P ) alla to thema einai kai ti epiloges exoyme... Exoume 2 paiktes me 12 ektos tou adamaki pou einai travmatias. Kai dyo me 13ares (o enas se katastash 6 kai o allos se katastash 5)

Last edited by krepaleon at 6/11/2012 5:23:35 PM

From: Getho

This Post:
00
216610.85 in reply to 216610.79
Date: 6/11/2012 5:26:01 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
162162
Εxw mia aporia giati den stisame tin ypomonetiki sto 4?
Den exoume tous katalilous paixtes na to kanoume?
To lew auto giati einai polu kalytero nα rixname enan kalo souter panw ston senter 4sari tous (pou einai kai faoulakias)
apο tο nα pame apenanti ston aso toys, mia kai xeroume οτι η ypomonetiki stin ousia psaxnei exwteriko mats ap ...

Last edited by Getho at 6/11/2012 5:41:25 PM

From: krepaleon

This Post:
00
216610.87 in reply to 216610.85
Date: 6/11/2012 5:44:00 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
173173
και για αυτό θα χρειαζόμασταν πάσα... δυστυχώς σήμερα δεν την είχαμε... αλλιώς θα πηγαίναμε σε κάτι πιο απλό εσωτερικό και θα είχαμε παραπάνω πιθανότητες....

From: Getho

This Post:
00
216610.88 in reply to 216610.87
Date: 6/11/2012 5:51:01 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
162162
Den ypirxe diladi 3ari kai tessari me kali pasa wste na dialexoume psila to mats ap apo oti katalaba...
To pio periergo apo ola einai oti ta pio polla sout ta pire autos me to xamilotero pp100...

From: krepaleon

This Post:
11
216610.89 in reply to 216610.88
Date: 6/11/2012 6:04:58 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
173173
Αυτό είναι το θέμα.. πως δεν είχαμε πάσα σήμερα... ακόμα και τους 2 πασέρ να βάζαμε μαζί, στην U21 δεν παίζουν τρομερές αντοχές και μετά το ημίχρονο θα τα βλέπαμε κολυώμενα.

Αυτό δεν είναι παράξενο... γιατί θέλαμε τα σουτ να τα πάρει το 2αρι και 3αρι μας... το περίεργο είναι το χαμηλό pp100... και ξαναεξηγώ... το ξέραμε πως θα παίξει με pg και συνήθως αναπληρωματικό έβαζε ψηλό όπως και έκανε... άμυνες τρομερές δεν πρέπει να έχει γιατί δεν βγάζει τπτ φοβερό σαν αξιολόγηση. Οπότε ακόμα και να κολλήσει στον βασικό (που με 2 σουτέρ στο 2-3 δεν μπορώ να πιστέψω πως μας έκλεισαν τόσο καλά), τον αναπληρωματικό θα έπρεπε να τον ξεμπροστιάσει... πόση περ.άμυνα να έχει ένα ΠΦ που παίζει κατά συνθήκη 3αρι? Και το πιο τραγικό δες την θέση 2... Κρασόπουλος και Παρασίδης είναι ακριβώς ίδιοι σε σκιλλς με μόνη διαφορά τον κρασόπουλο +2 στον χειρισμό καλύτερος... ο πρώτος έχτιζε και ο δεύτερος σκόραρε... και επειδή τον έβλεπα τον αγώνα... είχε 3-3 απέναντι στον βασικό αντίπαλο... δηλαδή τον ίδιο παίκτη που δεν άφηνε τον κρασόπουλο να σκοράρει... Για να καταλάβουμε την γάγγραινα της αστοχίας που είχαμε σήμερα... στο τέλος και αφού κρίθηκαν όλα μπήκε ο 12ος παίκτης τους που ήταν σέντερ και μάρκαρε τον κρασόπουλο... ε ούτε τότε δεν σκόραρε... true story!

From: Getho

This Post:
00
216610.90 in reply to 216610.89
Date: 6/11/2012 6:21:27 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
162162
χαχαχαχα ας πούμε οτι ήταν μια κακή βραδια για τα ταλέντα μας...
Ποια ταλέντα δηλαδή αυτους τους μελοντικους αλκοολικούς να λέμε :Ρ

Που να βρει στόχο ο καημένος ο Κρασόπουλος οταν μετα απο τα ξύδια τον έβαλαν να σκοράρει σε δυο μπασκέτες οι οποίες κουνιόντουσαν? :Ρ

Advertisement