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my expectations would be that this skill is rth the money you pay for it - else i wouldn't pay for it and don't train it like most managers do.

I agree, though my impression is that people only look at the number of blocked shots per game, and conclude it's not sufficient to justify training shotblocking. As Charles pointed out, they seem to ignore the fact that great shotblockers, especially at the inside positions, tend to disrupt a significant number of shots by rotating over. Disrupted shots are almost universally a miss (they seem to have a very, very low chance of going in).

And of course, if you don't train SB up, it's not going to work -- this is a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.

but thwe number of real blocks, tend me to the point that you have to train it for guards not for centers, and the german 14+ Sb center in the bundesliga ain't a big blocker and in total number 8-10 seems to be tcomparable or mean high skills just more altered shots i don't think so.

the difference in ID 8 to 14 is much bigger ;) You pointed out, that ID 13 is a zero rating against IS 15, if i remember right.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 1/2/2010 6:20:01 AM

but thwe number of real blocks, tend me to the point that you have to train it for guards not for centers, and the german 14+ Sb center in the bundesliga ain't a big blocker and in total number 8-10 seems to be tcomparable or mean high skills just more altered shots i don't think so.

the difference in ID 8 to 14 is much bigger ;) You pointed out, that ID 13 is a zero rating against IS 15, if i remember right.

How much is "not a big blocker"? I don't know which player you're talking about, but in pro basketball terms, a really great shot blockers will block 3 shots a game. Good shot blockers will probably block about 2, and average shotblocking big men will probably block about 1.

It would be great if someone kept count of alterations, but regretfully you have to watch your games and take notes for this.

Also, consider that if people are playing outside shooting tactics, centers will get less blocks, since most shots are mid- and long-range jumpers. Given that the overall poor develoment of guards in the game precludes teams from playing inside tactics with great success, it's quite possible that this is part of the problem

Last edited by GM-kozlodoev at 1/2/2010 6:24:36 AM

How much is "not a big blocker"?

i take those numbers in comüparision to the other centers with lower blocking lkike i said in the text before ;) He normally is betwenn 1,5-2 blocks, over 35min, which is below 3. uin the beginning of the change i track some more goofd blockers, and all of them are weak, in comparision to player with the half skill of them.

It would be great if someone kept count of alterations, but regretfully you have to watch your games and take notes for this.

And was the text for alteration?

Also, consider that if people are playing outside shooting tactics, centers will get less blocks, since most shots are mid- and long-range jumpers. Given that the overall poor develoment of guards in the game precludes teams from playing inside tactics with great success, it's quite possible that this is part of the problem

guards with blocking 7, get a lo of blocks, so they doesn't seem to be affected from this ;)

Edit: A info the numbers of blocks get reduced dramatically with the SB change, even if Forrest say they got increased. And good blocker on top level are very rare in this game, and those counts also for players with much higher sb then other skills.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 1/2/2010 6:32:28 AM

And was the text for alteration?

The English version of the text is "XXX rotates over to help defend the play".

guards with blocking 7, get a lo of blocks, so they doesn't seem to be affected from this ;)

Guards driving to the basket who have miserable inside shot will often get rejected by guards with respectable SB, that's true. Given that both IS and SB for guards are skills you don't really train (and are therefore respectable at best), respectable SB is relatively high.

This might or might not be an unfortunate side effect, though it likely has a rationalization. A respectable SB guard is someone like Dwyane Wade, who will probably swat most Jose Calderon ill-advised layup attempts in the fifth row, but won't be able to block Shaq when he's making a move to the basket.


Last edited by GM-kozlodoev at 1/2/2010 6:36:25 AM

my expectations would be that this skill is rth the money you pay for it - else i wouldn't pay for it and don't train it like most managers do.

I agree, though my impression is that people only look at the number of blocked shots per game, and conclude it's not sufficient to justify training shotblocking. As Charles pointed out, they seem to ignore the fact that great shotblockers, especially at the inside positions, tend to disrupt a significant number of shots by rotating over. Disrupted shots are almost universally a miss (they seem to have a very, very low chance of going in).

And of course, if you don't train SB up, it's not going to work -- this is a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.

I've an example of a guy that it was in my first roster, now he has 27yo and he was trained in SB till lvl 12 or 14 I don't remember exactly. Well, if you see the matches the % of shots scored by the opponent was similar to the other centers, ball losts the same, so at the end if you believe that SB is useful you can train all the players in that skills personally when I see a player with SB high on the market I prefer to stay away from him due to the fact that the salary has a penalty training this skill and once again I don't see any advantage in the number of shots blocked neither in the global box score.
Charles coudn't say that SB is an useless skill, don't you think?

If you keep ignoring the facts and interpret them wrong, there's no end to any discussion. If you don't even believe the only few guys that do know how the game engine is coded, and take their time to post some info at the forums, i.e. the BBs, why would you even bother to raise the subject then.

If a high shot blocking skill decreases the chance of driving guards hitting the shot, and the inside men hitting the shot, variance may still influence it, showing not that much difference at the single player you used as an example.

That's the problem with those games posted and many other examples posted in discussions. One single game doesn't prove anything, we still have the random factor as well. If you dominated the game, with all players at 130 points per 100 shots, your final score can vary a lot, since the average team takes just ~80 shots per game. One game you might only get 60 points, while the other game you might hit 200 points.

Even the full career of a single player isn't enough to really prove anything. My three main inside men are putting up insane numbers this season (70.7%, 67.6% and 62.8% %FG), does that mean I'm dominating and my opponents defense suck? No it probably means I'm lucky this season, variance is on my side.

If you mean Mazzurana, he's seen some time at PF as well, where he gets less rotations to help, and likely seems more jump shots that are hard to block. But that would just be my guess.

I probably wouldn't rank SB on PFs as high as SB on Cs.

The English version of the text is "XXX rotates over to help defend the play".

ain't they also reflections, against there own man like "normal" blocks? i hope so, because else it si not much..

This might or might not be an unfortunate side effect, though it likely has a rationalization. A respectable SB guard is someone like Dwyane Wade, who will probably swat most Jose Calderon ill-advised layup attempts in the fifth row, but won't be able to block Shaq when he's making a move to the basket.

but normally this would be the work of the center behind him, who don't block:

PS: Please show me a center with close to 5 blocks a game, and don't come with your logic that there are fewer blocks in a game with lot more shot attemps then in the realkity - because normally the number of blocks raise with the anumber of attembed blocks and get not reducing even when forrest takes this logic toargue for his reduction with the last change.

In countrys like germany, guards/SF with 2,5 blocks normally are close to the top 50 of the country with over hundreds leagues.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 1/2/2010 7:43:04 AM

no no Mazzurana had something about lvl 6-7 in SB, I mean Celestino Barbetta

In any case everyone could have reason, we see players with lvl 19-19 js/jr scored with the 20%, this game is so strange and seems so complicated

This what i am talking about the big men vs guards. 4 skills with never ending debate about SB, and actually the ppl that defend SB are the BB's and the GM's. For the guards 7 skills with only debate being driving, but again is so much much cheaper than SB and trains 2-3 other skills...

Last edited by JohnnyB at 1/2/2010 8:00:44 AM