BuzzerBeater Forums

...continued from the previous post.

How is this going to be implemented? Will there be time for me to prepare my team for the changes?
The new code, as it is currently made, only kicks in for teams that have a suitable number of players dressed to avoid a walkover and a minimum of 4 empty starter spots set. When it kicks in, only the one already set starter position (if it is set at all) is kept in the recalculation of the depth chart. Other starter positions and all the backup positions are filled with the best lineup choices. This, in practice, means that the new code uses all the unused players to fill the starter and backup positions and the game engine then uses them as if they were set like that by the manager himself.
The implementation for all game types is planned for next season at the earliest. We are still in the first weeks of testing and a long way from confirmation of the code's efficacy. So, in short, yes there will be time, at least one season of it.
As I wrote before, the plan is to test and implement the code only after it is perfected. There are also some decisions to be made: should the minimum number of empty starter spots allowed be three or four before the code kicks in? Should existing backup settings be kept or replaced by the lineup generation? These things can be discussed here as they directly affect the implementation of the new code, but the priority should still be feedback from tested BL PL games.

EDIT: Conclusion:
We don't want to be one sided and we definitely don't want to anger our user base. Our general disposition is to work with and listen to our users, all in the common goal of making the game better. Sometimes, there are things we can discuss and put up for a democratic (well, almost, if you look at the second team discussion) vote, but it's our responsibility to make choices and decisions that we really believe will benefit the game the most in the long term. This time, the decision to move forward with the implementation of this code was made a very long time ago (before the whole second team experiment) and was never up for discussion. Also, we can't give every proposed game up for a vote because running a game via committee is very time consuming and inefficient.
We are aware that this will anger some of our users, especially the ones that use the loophole on a regular basis, but we can't let that stop us from doing the right thing. Every time we announce or implement a change, there are some users for and against it and that sparks a discussion and it's fine, because we like feedback and opinions, but we don't want to stop the development of the game completely in fear of angering users. We need to see BB grow and prepare for better times, which, I'm pretty positive, are still coming.

Therefore, I'm asking politely, please help us test and implement this feature whether you like it or not, as it will certainly save us time that we can then use to address other problems and develop new features. Thank you.

Last edited by BB-Marin at 7/14/2014 10:12:50 AM

Thank you for the feedback. I have a question related to the feedback you are asking from us:

Is there any way to verify that a lineup is chosen and if so what the picked lineup was (outside of watching the subbing patterns)? I set a blank lineup for my last PL game (8 PM server time). I set my next PL game to use the same tactics as the last one and it still appears as a full blank/LCD (I was guessing that it might have showed me what the new code had picked). I can kind of tell from the minutes distribution what the picks probably were, but I wanted to know if the code had actually picked those players.


Last edited by tictacshack at 7/14/2014 8:33:20 PM

(71980393) I put 10 players on my roster, but did not assign any spots and Let the Coach Decide. Everyone was substituted normally except for my PF. He played 47 minutes.

My game started at 20:00 server time on Friday. As you see my PF did not substitute during the game.

...continued from the previous post.

How is this going to be implemented? Will there be time for me to prepare my team for the changes?
The new code, as it is currently made, only kicks in for teams that have a suitable number of players dressed to avoid a walkover and a minimum of 4 empty starter spots set. When it kicks in, only the one already set starter position (if it is set at all) is kept in the recalculation of the depth chart. Other starter positions and all the backup positions are filled with the best lineup choices. This, in practice, means that the new code uses all the unused players to fill the starter and backup positions and the game engine then uses them as if they were set like that by the manager himself.

Marin, correct me if I'm wrong but this implementation will benefit BL even more. Now it's hard to train young players with BL. But if I set a trainee on PG (all three slots) and the other four positions will be blank, he will play 48 min. You wrote that only the blank positions will be filled with players so in the end it will be easier to train guys with the new BL. Or do I oversee something?

Is there any way to verify that a lineup is chosen and if so what the picked lineup was (outside of watching the subbing patterns)?

@tictacshack: I'm afraid not.

(71980393) I put 10 players on my roster, but did not assign any spots and Let the Coach Decide. Everyone was substituted normally except for my PF. He played 47 minutes.
My game started at 20:00 server time on Friday. As you see my PF did not substitute during the game.

@Prof. BricksI'm pretty sure the injury of your "starting" PG Vail had something to do with it, but I can't act on it as it's still just a theory. I would need more similar matches (10 players dressed, 1 gets injured) to compare the data. Or it might be a completely different thing, more like that the choices for C and PF backups were limited to Rose because the others were just too bad to play there at all (which shouldn't really happen). Again, just a theory

Marin, correct me if I'm wrong but this implementation will benefit BL even more. Now it's hard to train young players with BL. But if I set a trainee on PG (all three slots) and the other four positions will be blank, he will play 48 min. You wrote that only the blank positions will be filled with players so in the end it will be easier to train guys with the new BL. Or do I oversee something?

@Nachtmahr: Please note that "Other starter positions and all the backup positions are filled with the best lineup choices." This means that the backup pg position will be replaced and a 48 minute game for that player will not be possible. At least, that's the theory. Still needs testing, of course.

I don't see the difference to how the blank lineup is working now.
Right now it seems to work like that:
- the coach is always using the player with the highest rating for the PG-spot to play as PG. That leads to a lot of switching positions and substitutions.

After the change it seems to work like that: the coach is always using the best player to play at a certain position, e.g. the best PG us going to play as PG.

Is the only difference that the coach will override Backup-positions if you put a single player in the lineup and want to make him play as PG/PG/PG?

After the change there will not be so many position switching and substitutions as the GE is actually filling the depth chart, as best as it can, before the game starts. This means that the overall effect will be something more similar to having had a set lineup from the start.

It will override backup positions only in cases where there are any set, but, as I explained, that's not the only difference.

What happens if I set a BL with LCD except I fill e.g. player A for all three PG slots and player B for any other starting spot? Will the rest of the lineup be managed like before with all the position switches and substitutions?

What happens if I set a BL with LCD except I fill e.g. player A for all three PG slots and player B for any other starting spot? Will the rest of the lineup be managed like before with all the position switches and substitutions?

Yes, exactly.

EDIT: We are still thinking of lowering the limit of allowed empty spots before the new code kicks in to three. If that happens, only the two starters would be kept in the new depth chart generation (as the new code would kick in, in the case you presented). All of the backups would be recalculated too.

Last edited by BB-Marin at 7/16/2014 3:53:39 PM