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BB Global (English) > Look Inside tactic STILL far too dominant!

Look Inside tactic STILL far too dominant!

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This Post:
77
245985.84 in reply to 245985.83
Date: 8/15/2013 10:11:32 AM
white snake
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
72477247
Second Team:
Black Forest Boars
I will try.

I compared two other players. One is from my team, the other one from a team in my league.

My player: Michaël Bourgeois (13378443)
The other one: Dmitrijus Minkauskas (10863370)

I compared only their OD, ID ans SB. They have the same OD (1) and almost the same ID (13 and 12). The main difference is their SB. Bourgeois has 13 and Minkauskas 3.

Both played 16 games as a PF/C against the same teams.
The results:

Bourgeois:
51 actions against him
- 36 stopped
- 16 blocks
- 15 failures
- out of these 15 failures there was only 1 shooting foul.

Def%: 70.59%
SB%: 31.37%
shooting foul%: 1.96%


Minkauskas:
83 actions against him
- 43 stopped
- 3 blocks
- 40 failures
- out of these 40 failures there were 11 shooting fouls

Def%: 51.81%
SB%: 3.61%
shooting foul%: 13.25%

This Post:
00
245985.85 in reply to 245985.84
Date: 8/15/2013 10:37:24 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
7979
That sums it up.

From: Messina

This Post:
00
245985.86 in reply to 245985.3
Date: 8/15/2013 2:02:18 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
11371137
Delete LI? Do you want more variety? So...

From: jonte

This Post:
00
245985.87 in reply to 245985.84
Date: 8/15/2013 3:27:46 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
925925
nice work. could you also share the offensive and defensive Statistics of both teams from buzzer-manager? that would help to see them in context

This Post:
00
245985.88 in reply to 245985.84
Date: 8/15/2013 3:55:34 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
8686
Awesome!
The influence of SB in a nutshell. Not that I hadn't already been convinced, but I am more convinced now!

This Post:
11
245985.89 in reply to 245985.86
Date: 8/15/2013 9:11:49 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
455455
Delete LI?


Hmm. Extreme move but this might be the one of the best ideas yet.

This Post:
00
245985.90 in reply to 245985.89
Date: 8/16/2013 10:26:14 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
Delete LI?


Hmm. Extreme move but this might be the one of the best ideas yet.


No, it's not (though if everyone were forced to run Princeton exclusively I'd be in decent shape). ;)

Fix the salary formulas, or rebalance the engine, or fix the problems in 2-3 and you've got a winner. Giving up and just eliminating the tactic overall is a loser.

This Post:
22
245985.91 in reply to 245985.90
Date: 8/16/2013 10:34:47 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
455455


Fix the salary formulas, or rebalance the engine, or fix the problems in 2-3 and you've got a winner. Giving up and just eliminating the tactic overall is a loser.


I've always said that the problem is deeper than just improving SB and fixing 2-3. Right now OD suffocates 3 point shooting and until that end of the equation is also fixed I predict outside offenses will remain dinosaurs in BB. Top division bigs shoot 55-65%. SB will help decrease that but the guards are all still shooting 30-38% with low 3-point %'s. Top division in Canada didn't have a single player shoot over 30% from the arc last season with a decent # of attempts.

This Post:
00
245985.92 in reply to 245985.91
Date: 8/16/2013 10:52:21 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
7979
Bet those guards are taking tough shots because of LI offense and/or have low JR.

This Post:
00
245985.93 in reply to 245985.91
Date: 8/16/2013 11:14:48 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229


Fix the salary formulas, or rebalance the engine, or fix the problems in 2-3 and you've got a winner. Giving up and just eliminating the tactic overall is a loser.


I've always said that the problem is deeper than just improving SB and fixing 2-3. Right now OD suffocates 3 point shooting and until that end of the equation is also fixed I predict outside offenses will remain dinosaurs in BB. Top division bigs shoot 55-65%. SB will help decrease that but the guards are all still shooting 30-38% with low 3-point %'s. Top division in Canada didn't have a single player shoot over 30% from the arc last season with a decent # of attempts.


That could easily be fixed in the salary formula too, though. Make OD for PGs as expensive as it is for a SG for a start and suddenly those high OD/PA guys are getting their salaries jacked up just like the high JS/JR SGs. Maybe reduce the cost of JR (and improve the training speed) so you're not stuck with guys with 12 or less JR going against a wall of 18+ OD with the inevitable result. And all they really need to do to make 2-3 much more effective is have the inside guys have their ID rather than OD defend passes down low as well in the 2-3 - because the fundamental problem is how easy it is to generate uncontested shots. Add in some general tweaks like maybe shotblocking leading to drawing a lot more offensive fouls on penetrating guards, low handling/driving maybe leading to open big men muffing the ball when it's dumped to them much more frequently, and perhaps you peg LI back some. Maybe bump up the shooting percentage slightly on uncontested jumpers and threes for skilled players, and lower the effectiveness of OD against JS/JR by including SB into the calculation (so a high OD/low SB guard would be great at pressuring, but easier to shoot over than one with balanced OD/SB). You'd need to have pressure train SB too, and of course some of these ideas would likely be painful initially, but they're all alternatives that are better than just removing LI, and then eventually LP, and if people ever figured out how to build effective II teams that too.

This Post:
00
245985.94 in reply to 245985.93
Date: 8/16/2013 1:54:13 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
455455
It could be fixed with the salary formula like anything else, the problem is that managers have spent years pumping up OD in their training and now you'd be telling them that their players are way too expensive. The market would suddenly be flooded with expensive guards that are now less desireable.

I think a change like this needed to be made a long time ago to work properly because all the top players are already built the way they are. Just like the SB tweak, I would just keep tweaking the game engine to get the desired results. Tweaking the salaries will only create a lot of really pissed off users.

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