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I have to agree with what southpaw says. I just want to add on to what he said though.

The offsite community was not welcoming for me. I tried to run for NT and U21 manager. Simply because I was not in a top division they wrote me off, but wanted me to be a part of the offsite community. Then they said that I never helped, even though I have a post asking to be a domestic scout, however they did not respond to this and I did not become a domestic scout. Basically what I am saying is, if you contradict what they think is right you will be eaten up by the offsite "community".
At least the NT has been having managers in the top divisions for who knows how long. How far has the gotten us in the world? Don't say we have had success in the Americas please. Think about it, we are a top 3 if not the top country with people playing buzzerbeater. We have not done much in the world and we are not a threat in the world championships. Yet we have the same people and types of people being the manager over and over again. WHERE HAS THAT GOTTEN US?

I also have some personal beef with just about everyone on the offsite. I want to say some things that I can't. I feel like I was never accepted into the community and that is why I stopped posting there. Again I think it is because of the division I am in. If I am such a bad coach, how come I have one of the top 20 year olds? I am deciding if I should make his game shape respectable weekly so you can't use him.



When will you get it through your thick skull that we need new NT managers? Most of the players that are potiential NT players come from DIV and DV. I have basically given up on the NT and U21 team because of how corrupt they are.

The offsite community was not welcoming for me. I tried to run for NT and U21 manager. Simply because I was not in a top division they wrote me off, but wanted me to be a part of the offsite community.

You were not written off because you weren't in a top division, you were written off because you had absolutely no experience with anything national team related. I couldn't care less about what division my NT manager is in.

Then they said that I never helped, even though I have a post asking to be a domestic scout, however they did not respond to this and I did not become a domestic scout. Basically what I am saying is, if you contradict what they think is right you will be eaten up by the offsite "community".

You are right on the first part, and I'm sure jfarb just missed your post on the domestic scout page, so you probably would've been put on the list if you mentioned that you were still not on the list. I see that you tried again next season and were let on without a problem. I don't remember you contradicting what we thought was right and I don't remember anyone disrespecting you. I'm sure if you became active on the offsite again, everyone would be fine and would be happy to have you back.

At least the NT has been having managers in the top divisions for who knows how long. How far has the gotten us in the world? Don't say we have had success in the Americas please. Think about it, we are a top 3 if not the top country with people playing buzzerbeater. We have not done much in the world and we are not a threat in the world championships. Yet we have the same people and types of people being the manager over and over again. WHERE HAS THAT GOTTEN US?

The NT has had managers in the top divisions because the managers that have the most NT knowledge and are the most qualified for the position have ended up being managers in top divisions. Once again, I don't have any problem with a manager in DIV/DV managing the national team as long as I think that they know how to bring success to the national team better than any other candidate. When Coco picked this team up, he knew that the team was in the middle of a rebuilding process and we were not likely to win World's. He still had a good enough team to possibly lead us to the semifinals, but we lost games to teams that we should've beaten because of a factor that not one manager that I have seen on BB consider trying to avoid, which is foul trouble. Coco now knows that the players we are trying to build up need to be able to avoid foul trouble, because those are free points going the other way along with less minutes for our best players. I see no reason to say that he did a poor job managing in his last term, and I know that he can win the world championships next season.

I feel like I was never accepted into the community and that is why I stopped posting there. Again I think it is because of the division I am in. If I am such a bad coach, how come I have one of the top 20 year olds? I am deciding if I should make his game shape respectable weekly so you can't use him.

When will you get it through your thick skull that we need new NT managers? Most of the players that are potiential NT players come from DIV and DV.I have basically given up on the NT and U21 team because of how corrupt they are.

I'll admit that some people were a bit rough on you when you joined, and I apologize for that, but I think everyone was showing you a lot more respect after you joined the offsite than when you were someone that we didn't know before. No one thinks that you are a bad manager, and you are certainly training a great player that should be a U21/NT star in the future. I still respect you and I'm sure that many people feel the same, but you have to show respect for others to earn their respect back. I hope you forgive us for what we did wrong, and do what is best for your team and for America.

Alright, I havent said anything in this debate but I have some things I want to say to everyone that is participating in this debate as well as everyone just following along.

We are the USA and everyone wants to win. Plain and simple. We are brought up from day one to be the best we can be and destroy everyone else in the process. However, we find ourselves struggling to do so at the NT level. Why is that? Well, everyone can throw out reasons for our unsuccessful attempts time and time again in the worlds but it wont lead to a conclusion. Arguing that some one hasnt helped the National Team or this person isnt listening to what we need to do is bull crap. Being the NT manager is much more difficult then everyone's own personal teams. Not because there is a whole bunch of different things you have to do, but because everyone is watching your every move and is ready to criticize you for your actions. Do you not think that Coco, or Jfarb, or wozzvt, or even Edju didnt want to do what everyone else asked for? Of course they want to please everyone, but that is impossible. So that leads to some people getting their feelings hurt because their opinions didnt seemed to be "used" with the NT. It happens. I have had it happen to myself several times. Whether it is a suggestion for a tactic, or a call up, or even just a matter of TIE or CTing someone. It hurts when your opinions arent used, but not everybody's can be. Its just like the USA Presidential election. Do you think who you vote for has all the same opinions you do? NO! The president always does things that people dont believe in and why is that? Because more times than not it is in the best interest of the country. Now, the president thing doesnt quite compare because there are more things that happen in the USA in real life, then what happens on Buzzerbeater. But everything the NT coach is done in the best interest of the NT and the USA.

Everyone wants to win but when you think of the situation we are in, not one single idea will bring us to the top. It will be a collection of all the ideas put together to bring us there. So, just because you may not believe in some of the ideas that Coco has to offer, or any of us other offsite members, doesnt mean that you cant voice your opinion or go into the tactics forum and suggest things for games. We all will listen, but what everyone needs to realize is we will do what is best for the team.

I understand the want for different types of players. I am right there with everyone that argues this. I think we need to experiment with different player types and find a way to break the normal playing style in Buzzerbeater. But it isnt simple. Just because you want to propose we do something now doesnt mean it would go into effect now. It can take up to 6 seasons just to put a plan into place because we will have to train players to get there or alter the players we have now! So that is why we need to, instead of argue about what has been done up to this point, come together and put the most thought out plan into place so we can then develop the team needed to win Worlds in the future.

There is constructive criticism, and then there is just stupid useless criticism, and right now the majority of what i have seen has been useless up to this point. Lets make it more constructive guys.

Last edited by Isaiah at 8/24/2012 9:06:08 PM

i agree with biggy we cant tear each other down but work as a team and come together.

divided we fall and united we stand.

and 1 ball 4 u biggy

Last edited by balling_lights_out at 8/25/2012 1:59:00 AM

there should be a group of people who vote on the ideas given and then test it on a country in a scrimmage that isnt too bad. this will be kind of like a democracy.

example: someone makes an idea and a group votes and i if it has more good votes than bad then we try it and vote if it was good and should be applied.

the group can be people who really know the national players and seen there skills.

im new to this national stuff ( im hope to actually get into it later ) so if u dont like it please dont attack me with ur posts.

Last edited by balling_lights_out at 8/25/2012 2:04:14 AM

I'd like the last 5 minutes of life back after having to read all of this 3 am drivel from last night.

Can we please focus on the election?

Haha, my thoughts exactly. Here's jfarb reading one of southpaws post. http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkunfaTc7z1qi553yo1_500...

I didn't know Jfarb is Bill Cosby! That's awesome Dr. Huxtable plays BB, I had no idea!

Oh come on.!!! Everybody knows that.!! :D

yeah I've been wanting to bring out ideas or tactics but I don't do it, cause I don't want to get my feelings hurt All I am is a scout.......and I'm happy with it


Well I may bring out the tactics the other team used, but I won't go out there every single time and do that........it's annoying. I know that. I think that's why no one responds in my offsite newspaper usually, cause my post are long and sometimes make no sense........only one replying usually now is just LBJ, lyllam, and Jack.............and ocasionally A1R and CoachSK..............

I don't want to bother the NT with my jibber jabber so I just shut myself up and just scout my list


I will try to be less annoying and make my post short in the future...............


Back to the NT. I think coco has done a nice job, it's just that we have tough luck getting everything right. We didn't know that Uruguay would CT us, we were lowering effort so we HAD a chance to win the next game (assuming if we'd won) If we'd CTd, then we'd get hammered in the next round........point is they can't be perfect. No one is. No NT coach is perfect. And yeah smallfrie that is right. People sometimes hate the NT cause of that. Thats why you see these sometmes annoying D5/4 people argue every time an election. I bet all these D3ers+ think it's annoying, I know it is. Everyone has been annoyed in this game once. trust me I get annoyed every time fatherofmyteam opens another thread about almost the same game. A lot of times people get annoyed......but hey it's life.

Well all I hope for this next term is hopefully a top 5 finish in the worlds. I hope we don't get humiliated cause USA is supposed to be a POWER, not some usual NT That gets eliminated after the first round........hopefuly we'll get some good luck in this term

The lack of any substantial debate in this thread is depressing, to say the least. For future NT debate threads, it would be nice to see our GMs steer the discussion in a positive direction, in which actual NT topics are debated. All of these ad hominem attacks are tiring and add no value to the discussions that need to take place for our NT to be successful.

For those interested, the real NT conversation is happening on the offsite: (http://s3.zetaboards.com/BuzzerBeater_USA_NT/topic/758728...). Of the eligible NT candidates, Coco is the only one who is offering real solutions to the current dilemmas our national team is facing. I think all of that has been lost in the drivel that is this thread.


Last edited by Arthur Monay at 8/25/2012 4:38:41 AM

No, no, no.

Ad hominem would be saying coco is an #^&%^&


therefore don't vote for him.

When we point to results to what was, previously, one of the three largest userbases (no idea if it still is my guess is we'd be fifth because our community doesn't foster growth), and we are ranked 10th or so, regularly losing to countries with bases a quarter of our size or less, stops becoming unlucky, and at some point you admit the process is wrong.

and on that you shouldnt vote for coco.


I'm not running, as i haven't put any real thought into these:

but how about if we spit the bit again, every fringe nt player that has been getting trained properly gets a game, preferably in some sort of FC press high paced offense so everone gets a few minutes in a high scoring game for the last few games.

the u21s have a match thread, the NT used to, why not do that, but for a few of the games where the outcome isnt possibly in doubt, do a detailed tactics corner, or explain what is expected from certain players and how to really take advantage when you're the better team. (everything from basic primers on how pushing the pace reduces randomness because of the increased number of posessions to more subtle points on princeton vs motion)

anyway, if you think the results have been acceptable, vote for mroe of the same. if not, don't. there are plenty of eager candidates that I am sure are at a stage in life where they can put alot of time into the game.