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Cup final in neutral venue

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10473.9 in reply to 10473.8
Date: 12/30/2007 8:18:37 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
9696
first off, let's start by telling that I totally would not mind if the money was split 50/50 between the teams, the home team will have some advantage already by playing a home match.

But yes, it might be purposely that the cup might be more attractive for lower division teams... But I also don't doubt that a team who won the championship in first division, but hasn't won the cup yet, might try to get the cup to add to his trophies in the next season...

It is up to the manager to put his lesser players in the cup, just for training and see how far they get, or to put his best in order to win it, or anything in between.

They are not your friends; they dispise you. I am the only one you can count on. Trust me.
This Post:
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10473.10 in reply to 10473.9
Date: 12/30/2007 10:04:51 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
3737
first off, let's start by telling that I totally would not mind if the money was split 50/50 between the teams, the home team will have some advantage already by playing a home match.


The rules don't have anything to say here, but I believe the split is already 50/50. (I heard something about a rules rewrite somewhere else... hopefully the new ones have something to say about the cup.)

It is up to the manager to put his lesser players in the cup, just for training and see how far they get, or to put his best in order to win it, or anything in between.


Completely agree, of course, and never stated otherwise. The problem is that there's only one rational (i.e. ignoring pride) choice for a I.1 team, and that is to ignore the cup.

Edited by oeuftete (12/30/2007 10:05:07 PM CET)

Last edited by Mod-oeuftete at 12/30/2007 10:05:07 PM

This Post:
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10473.11 in reply to 10473.10
Date: 1/1/2008 11:00:58 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
9696
Completely agree, of course, and never stated otherwise. The problem is that there's only one rational (i.e. ignoring pride) choice for a I.1 team, and that is to ignore the cup.

Edited by oeuftete (12/30/2007 10:05:07 PM CET)


unless it's the manager's goal to get that cup, and he's ready to sacrifice some money for it....
:)

They are not your friends; they dispise you. I am the only one you can count on. Trust me.
This Post:
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10473.12 in reply to 10473.11
Date: 1/8/2008 9:18:19 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1515
If it was only a sacrifice of money then it might be worth it. What is instead happening is that players are forced to sacrifice their standing in league play to win cup games, and that just makes no sense.

This Post:
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10473.13 in reply to 10473.12
Date: 1/8/2008 9:29:41 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
3737
If it was only a sacrifice of money then it might be worth it. What is instead happening is that players are forced to sacrifice their standing in league play to win cup games, and that just makes no sense.


For me, making a sacrifice is not the issue. You should have to make a compromise to win the cup (unless you're very strong and deep... I bet BC Törööö could have done the double in Canada if he so chose. for example). The issue for me is that even in the best-case scenario (you win the cup), you come nowhere near recouping what you sacrificed.

This Post:
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10473.14 in reply to 10473.13
Date: 1/9/2008 1:43:56 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
1515
Agreed...it isn't sacrifice I am opposed to, it is sacrificing everything that is the problem. There is no benefit whatsoever to your team in winning the tournament. So this is not a sacrifice one good thing for another good thing, it is sacrificing in just about every other way for nothing tangible whatsoever. Unless you count pride, but lets be serious for a minute.

This Post:
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10473.15 in reply to 10473.14
Date: 1/9/2008 10:34:20 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1919
There is no benefit whatsoever to your team in winning the tournament.

I'd say the income I received from 9 cup games helped my team somewhat.

This Post:
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10473.16 in reply to 10473.15
Date: 1/10/2008 12:07:22 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
3737
There is no benefit whatsoever to your team in winning the tournament.

I'd say the income I received from 9 cup games helped my team somewhat.


Yes, there is definitely some gross benefit. I don't believe there's anything close to a net benefit for a top division team.

As a US top division team, how did you treat those cup games?

This Post:
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10473.17 in reply to 10473.16
Date: 1/10/2008 12:24:18 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
1919
Yes, there is definitely some gross benefit. I don't believe there's anything close to a net benefit for a top division team.

As a US top division team, how did you treat those cup games?

I took them seriously, as I did my home league games. I basically threw my away league games to spread training minutes around and bank enthusiasm.

Granted, since I just promoted to the NBBA, I didn't have title aspirations at the start of the season. I wanted to finish at least fifth to ensure another season. Fortunately for me, the teams in my league are pretty evenly matched, so I haven't fallen too far behind the leaders - the playoffs are certainly within reach.

I'm not sure how I'll do it next season. While I was in the cup this season, I pretty much TIE'd every game, and I lost pretty much all of them. I haven't played around with enthusiasm much since the TIE/CT changes, but perhaps I'd be a bit more competitive next season doing this. Doesn't solve the training minutes problem, though, but I guess that's the tradeoff with the increased money from cup games. (Well, from home cup games, anyway.)

I suppose there's increased experience for the players from cup games, but I don't know how important that is.

edit: I just realized that I've already clinched a playoff spot. Yay!

Edited by dhoff (1/10/2008 1:18:19 AM CET)

Last edited by dhoff at 1/10/2008 1:18:19 AM

This Post:
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10473.18 in reply to 10473.15
Date: 1/10/2008 4:53:12 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
1515
I haven't bothered to calculate it or anything, but I have doubts that your total income for the season was higher becuase of that money. If you were forced to sacrifice even road games in your regular season it would affect attendance probably as much as you earn from those games. What good is making an extra 20k in a cup game if you lose it in revenue because of losses elsewhere?

Simply put, the better your team plays the better attendance you have. Now, while focusing on home games will mitigate that problem a little bit you still will have a lesser record to overcome which will decrease attendance. On the other hand losing cup games does not seem to have any result on attendance.

This Post:
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10473.19 in reply to 10473.18
Date: 1/10/2008 5:22:10 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
304304
On the other hand losing cup games does not seem to have any result on attendance.


I can assure you that it does, but remember that you only lose one per season.

NO ONE at this table ordered a rum & Coke
Charles: Penn has some good people
A CT? Really?
Any two will do
Any three for me
Any four will score
Any five are live
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