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Something that would help is being there for new managers and encouraging them to train up 18 year olds well. The bigger the supply of well trained 18 -21 year olds that come through the more that will be available for the top teams at affordable prices to train onwards...

is that really a problem, today?

And with slow training speed and random training which cost money, it won't make much sense anyway cause the gain in value through training isn't that big even today, and with bigger supply and not optional training i doubt you would make a econoically good decision.

The idea is that like on the actual D-League, where the games practicaly does not interest anyone, so is this league.
Hence, there is no meaning of actualy playing.

It has nothing to do with GS management.
As I wrote on a specific week a player could not play on both leagues (or be sold).
In addition, it could be define that one more drawback will be that the GS when returning to the "real" league will be only (and always) "Average" (for example).

Regarding the Training issue you've brought;
Yes, it is (almost) exactly that.
In most cases, the drafted players are just does not worth the hustle of real-training at their team (again - exactly like in the NBA). But, the players are still may be observed as future prospect fot that team, but only if he could be trained.
This suggestion makes the draft a little bit more something that worth investing at. Especially at higher leagues.

Regarding a server issue who had been brought here (by someone else).
Are you realy sure you can tell how much will it cost in server time? I doubt that.
Are you realy sure that the BB-masters will not prefer adding this (or any other feature) that may be worth paying more for better servers? You don't and cannot know.
Any "Real" feature will cost in performance, should we close all this "Suggestions" forum? No we don't.

High league teams do train young players (even under 20). It's more rare than in low leagues, but for two reasons:
1) Low leagues cannot keep training players over 22 years old if they have been well trained before, cause of high salaries.
2) High leagues need to have at least one player with skills of a 22 y old guy to be competitive. Like in NBA, team need experimented players to play the big games.

High teams rarely train young players as a stradegy (and not just by chance) if at all.

As for a D-League team, how can you imagine someone willing to use a player who had an half training. Even more a team in high league. There, we need players who have been trained 98% of the time, not 45% of the time.

I imagine this working exactly like in the NBA...
For the right price, this will be worth it for those teams, and the draft whould have real sense except getting randomly players that an immediate sell is the only thing they can do with them.

Last edited by Pini פיני at 12/9/2011 10:46:31 AM

I don't see any merit in this.

its certainly an interesting idea in principle but it would require thinking about how training would work.

id like to think of a development league about bridging an experience gap or something, for a new draftee rather than providing extra training for skills. or for seeing how they cope with game situations, but then there are scrimmages and private league games which can do this

Thanks Pini for writing up the suggestion.

The idea spawned out of this thread. (203867.33)
The basic idea in summary - Some kind of D-league, consisting of only U21 players, who can migrate between league and D-league, but receive the training and game shape benefits of normal league games.

In response to peoples queries, the intended benefits of some kind of D-league are:

- Top league teams would have more interest in training 18-19 year olds (which is minimal at the moment).
- Upper league teams would then have less inclination to tank, drop down to lower leagues, in order to experience the game in a different aspect (selling up, training players from scratch etc).
- Having a D-league would give greater importance of your scrubs that you draft. One of the biggest complaints about BB is that only 4 good players come out of the draft. The D-league would hopefully give some interest into the 'crappier' players.
- Other benefits may be training minute management, experience points, game shape management, etc etc etc. Yet to be defined though.

We have national U21 teams. D-league would be of similar vein to that.

The idea is still very raw, but the idea of the league has been spawned out of discussion of various issues with BB. Some of which are tanking, Upper league teams not training young players, dis-interest in the draft, etc etc.

As I stated in my other thread, this kind of league could be tested in a 'Private League' format as an optional feature for some users, (with no added league benefit) to begin with....

Current oustanding issues
- the way that players who are both league and D-league teams migrate between the leagues, and potential benefits (ie: do they get full training minutes? How does game shape work).

Am open to any ideas/suggestions on how this could potentially work.
As I said, it would be similar to a private league, but with some conditions/rules placed around the players who can be on the team, and then with some kind of integration into your league side.

At this stage, i think its best that any financial aspect of the D-league be left out. So if you have a D-league team, there is no economy as such. Just to keep things simple to begin with.

Some kind of D-league, consisting of only U21 players, who can migrate between league and D-league, but receive the training and game shape benefits of normal league games.

The discussion is mostly about top teams, but it seems to me this is actually a much bigger change for all those teams that are currently in a position to effectively and continuously train U21 players, i.e. lower leagues. (I am a top league team, who is currently one-position training two U21 players.)

The development league as discussed thus far is effectively an alternative training mode (whether it gives the same training type than the main team or not) that provides additional training. This means the cake just got bigger for a very small additional cost (salaries of extra U21 players in system, some of who would be there regardless of the development league). Which in turn means that the average skill level of the available players just got higher. Which seems to suggest the price of developed players just got smaller.

The minutes played and thus game shape gained in the development league clearly makes things easier for those teams that can play U21 players in key positions in the main team. This diminishes the value of strong game shape management in a majority of leagues, which I cannot consider a positive thing. One suggestion (Pini's version) is that the players returning from development league would have a fixed (e.g. average) game shape, which could certainly make this issue less of a problem. Regardless, I believe it makes things somewhat easier for these guys. A smaller problem is that this creates a buffer against injuries for a great number of teams. Maybe some do not see that as a problem at all, and I am somewhat undecided myself.

If the training types in main team and development league are not the same, an additional change (perhaps for the better?) would be that the teams that continuously train U21 players are now in better a position to switch their training and game focus (e.g. from big men to guards) during the season simply by substituting main team trainees with development trainees (and perhaps doing a couple of supporting transfers). Currently, anyone doing this needs to think about training implications quite a lot before making that decision. This could change the tactical dynamics across a league. Could be interesting. But again, this affects others than the top teams.

- Top league teams would have more interest in training 18-19 year olds (which is minimal at the moment).

Well, they would be forced to train young players in the development league, as long as it has a positive financial effect. If there is no real profit to be made (and there seems to be no game performance effect whatsoever), the development league would be interesting mainly for those top teams that find it fun. Not a bad thing and there is some degree of managerial choice (figuring out the profits), but this is not a real game-play benefit.

- Upper league teams would then have less inclination to tank, drop down to lower leagues, in order to experience the game in a different aspect (selling up, training players from scratch etc).

I don't know if this is a real issue and a solution to it. All top league teams have already gone through the phase where they built players from scratch or at least had the chance. Lower leagues continue to be the best place to do this.

As I stated in my other thread, this kind of league could be tested in a 'Private League' format as an optional feature for some users, (with no added league benefit) to begin with....

Please explain what this means. Isn't the point of the development league to provide training (and possibly game shape management)? What is there to do in PL mode (arcade mode: no training, no injuries, no money, no nothing except the games)? I guess Pini even suggested there would be no games. So, PL what?

Again, as in my first message on this thread, I give the full credit for this (good) suggestion to you.
I just made it a separate suggestion as should be, sumarized it, and added a little bit of my concept.

Hey thanks for the great input.

When i say Private league, i guess what im tryign to say is, that if BB wanted to test this D-league scenario out, they could run it as a trial in a Private League. Develop a Private league for teams who can run this demo-D-League to test it out.
Twas merely a suggestion as to how BB could roll this out as a trial run. its not really important though.

Upper league teams would then have less inclination to tank,

Yer this isnt a major issue in the game, But in saying that, im playing in Div III with an ex Div I team, who has millions in the bank. The day he decides to promote back up, he will do it. Not exactly that great a competition to be in. But like i said, not a major issue. he deliverately demoted to experience training younger players.

But you did hit the nail on the head here.

the development league would be interesting mainly for those top teams that find it fun

thats what its all about really.

Something that i think is a really hidden benefit of all this, is the benefit to the draft. Lets say that this D-league allows you to play your draftee's in it and bring them back to your normal league whenever you want. And the rest of your D-league team is made up of scrubs who cannot be played in your normal league. This will instantly give meaning and usefulness to the draft. i really think this is a hidden positive that would come out of this D-league idea.

As ive said, im still unsure about how the economic/training benefits of a D-league would work. I think these need lots of discussion. But im sure that a D-league would have benefit in some form or another.

What about if, your D-league consisted of
3 Drafted players who can come back into your league team. These guy's salary will be part of the normal BB economics.
and all other players comprised of fired/retired players, all U21, whom cannot be brought into your league team. These guys are on your D-league roster, but not get a salary, and as such, do not get trained, do not get paid, and do not affect the normal league at all.

At the end of the season, when you draft another 3 guys, you can use a combination of this years draft, and last years draft, to make up the numbers, to a maximum of 3 players. (maybe 4?.. dunno).

So lets use a real life scenario just to run it through in my head.
Ive got a D-league team, with my 3 18 year old draftee's. This week im going to train Rebounding. Everyone who plays at C/PF in the normal league, gets training, PLUS, any of the 3 guys in my D-league, who play at PF/C, will also get training. (maybe none of them?)

at the start of the next season, i now have 3 19 year old draftee's, who, may have gotten training, and whom are now potentially useful players for someone in the league competition. . Maybe i train them for another year. Then they are 20 year old useful players. Maybe i keep one, and sell 2, and put 2 new draftee's into my D-league.

Ok so whats the benefit to me now? Ive got a 20 year old with a $10k salary, whom i dont really use, so i sell hiim. Impact - number of $10k salary players in the system will icnrease, therefore reducing their overall sale price. BUT, positive. You will actually be able to find a decent f*&^%ing backup SF on the transfer market, for a decent price. Halleluja!

anyways, definately more discussion needed. :) more wine sir!