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I don't do LI cookie cutter.

The point is that 16 JS is LI cookie cutter and 10 JR is not. What conversation are you responding too?

In what world is a high PA and high JR LI cookie cutter?

The #1 sign of LI cookie cutter is punting JR and a really bad LI cookie cutter is low PA. I pointed out he has the highest PA on the team because he does not receive good passes since the rest of the team sucks arse at PA relatively...because so many LI cookie cutters surround him.

Maybe I didn't get you cookie cutter definion. Maybe because, in fact, if I tried to make a cookie cutter PG for LI, I would try to train PS as much, as it was possible, because in LI PG should pass to inside players, not score.

What is more, I don't believe that usual managers trains JR much more than PS. According to my databases of 20 yo players, when we will consider only PG and SG's salary formulas, average player has only 0,3 level more in JR than in PS. It's not suggested to not train JR and PS before that age, so what we see, it's only the result of dumb-managers training.

However, I have to say, that their JS is usually 1,25 level higher than PS. And yes, JS it's also not suggested to be trained before 20th birthday...

So, it looks like cookie-cutter PG is not an JR idiot. It looks like it's JS idiot. And what is more, the JS idiot is usually an idiot without OD.

Did you notice the same relative total number of shots?

Maybe I didn't noticed it, I was more focused on percentage.

In this game if you have high JS you will still miss. JR works but nobody realizes it, even idiots start threads about it and if you really look at the numbers its the high JS, not high JR that doesn't work on most players. Outside shooting is overall gimped, but where the JR is there, it does work point for point.

I've been complaining about JS overtraining for almost 20 seasons now but nobody gets it or stops it, its a game design issue.

If you think about teams, which has enormous dozes of JS at any positions, but they don't have much defence to stop opponent, I agree - they may hurt you and win with even worse BB-stats than you, when you don't have strong OD, but some (overpowered, you think) OD kicks their over-paid butts.

If you think, that even one JS specialist in your team is too much, I disagree with this statement. However, we know, that you thought about the first example, I believe.

The masses will continue to create this:

Guards - high JS
Bigs - high DR/IS

Agreed with JS and IS. But I don't know, why DR is bad for bigs - it boosts some stats quite much, and it's free, so why it's bad?

Guards have- high JS. Low JR. Low PA. Decent to high OD. IF inside skills are trained- IS
forwards have- high JS, really dismal PA, horrible SB, often not much RB
bigs have- massive IS. 2nd most stat would be ID. punted/gimped SB, relatively low RB compared to IS...and if htey have trained guard stats at all, its JS, DR, OD in that order

Lots of bigs, PF types especially, have higher JS than RB. Yet and still globally shooting percentages are ultra gimp.

Why lacks of RB are bad? RB is, in my opinion, the most overpaid skill in the game. It's very, very hard to lose to game only because of rebounds, but it's the most expensive skill!
JS on PFs helps to beat their matchups lacks of OD... which they have, because many managers seems to don't care about defence. If you balance JS with OD, it's OK.




Last edited by Siwy at 9/26/2015 10:22:15 AM

(almost) Nobody is building anything that can function outside of LI in this GE. This is a design issue IMO. People have had 20 seasons to figure training out/choose to train for how the game is designed and they don't. I feel training should be adjusted to fit people, rather than watching people walk away from a game that doesn't simulate real basketball intuitively.

Actually, most of the managers doesn't care about training. And that's why training shouldn't be adjusted to fit people. Training is designed to award managers, which cares about it, and it shouldn't be realistic. If they don't want to train defence, let them don't do it. If they want to be better, they need to analyse their faults and realise, why they should train OD, ID or SB.
People won't change, so why we should change the game for them?

Always looking for something to agree with, I found this:

THe out of position training system which adds no realism, balance or real value to the game whatsoever.

However, I also saw this bit of bizarre reasoning:

Training is designed to award managers, which cares about it, and it shouldn't be realistic.

Actually, most of the managers doesn't care about training. And that's why training shouldn't be adjusted to fit people. Training is designed to award managers, which cares about it, and it shouldn't be realistic.

Actually, that is exactly the reason it should be adjusted. The problem is training effects everything else. There is a limit of good players out there because so few users find valuable enough to wait 4 to 6 seasons for trainees to be useful. This is effecting the rest of the game. I checked my league's draft from three seasons ago and only one player from the first round is being trained. When I started in season 6 in Div. IV I got a great draft pick 5k 19yr old post player with high potential. At the time with most of the my league's best player's were 6k to 8k players. That draft pick was an instant contributor in my league and helped me win and advance. Outside of a bot filled bottom league the idea of a first year trainee giving you quality minutes seems highly unlikely. The situation has changed from the first ten seasons where 100k+ were rare or not existing.

I have always been an advocate for adding college players to the draft. My suggestion is to add 20 and 21 year olds with skills limited to prominent and salaries limited to 10k. This would give at least lower and mid level teams draftees that can contribute in meaningful way without sacrificing games in for training. The drawback to these college players is it would flood the market with 10k to 50k players (after two or three seasons) of training. But I think this a good thing since 10k to 50k players are exactly the level of players most median users need to build there team. Users could still draft 18 year olds to get the full potential of a player.

Sadly, this game now requires new users three or four seasons (over a year in real time to be competitive in an active league). You are going to lose a lot of new users that way. I would have a hard time trying market an online game to my friends that takes two or three years before you can be competitive in that games community.

People won't change, so why we should change the game for them?

That is the question. This game works best when it has large active community. BuzzerBeater filled with bot-majority leagues isn't the answer. So a tweak here or there to keep it growing can be helpful. Of course, I will give that some of these tweaks have backfired. This is a problem. But a lot of tweaks have been geared towards appeasing long-term players rather new users. But the training and drafting part of the game has been in a rut for a long time and changes to it could help new users the most.

I guess you overcare about JR- I may have made up this term-
My primary scoring option has 15 JS and 18 JR. It can be easily defended by 16 OD guys even when his GS&DMI is really good. Just look at the last cup match and the match on 25/8.
How do I know the OD's of his matchups? I asked their managers:)
I asked because I was thinking just like you, so I was really wondering how could you stop a guy with 18 JR?
Also can you see something really special about his shooting percentage? His 3pt percentage is high, but not as high as what is implied by that range.
Now I realize that JS is much more important.
In your example, 16/8 guy will be more useful than 9/10 guy under same circumstances.

Now I'm planning on exchanging my primary option with another one, and if I can find, his JS/JR will be the other way around.

Getting back on topic. Three competitors are about ready to bite the bullet in one way shape or form. and this game still has a lot larger pool of players.


It again comes down to getting knowledge of this game into the right hands and the best way to do that is getting people on board who have large spheres of influence. to that end I think perhaps here in the US a effort should be made to reach out to every sports talk station with independent programming, offer a premium membership to the host gratis in exchange for a short segment each week hyping the site.

More users in USA woo woo???

Real basketball fans are going to want a realistic simulation. Unfortunately none exists in all of the WWW

im a "real Basketball fan" and i love hiw the BB engine is working..pretty close to real baba in my eyes

btw: respect..ur destroyin another thread with ur books of nonsense..good job