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U21 Consolation Tournament -- Season 37

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This Post:
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284770.96 in reply to 284770.95
Date: 2/21/2017 5:18:52 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
181181
So how big of a chance would you say they have to win with a CT vs a normal in that game? And I guess what others may think is right probably is the most irrelevant as it is the Dutch NT Coach who only can say what he thinks is right for his team.
As it looks to me though he was willing to risk it all in order to be able to get an extra game. Something he also got.


Evidently he does not need big results to be satisfied..... I hope (for him) that even those who voted him are satisfied!

This Post:
66
284770.97 in reply to 284770.86
Date: 2/21/2017 11:06:58 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
883883
A Normal against Italy+GDP+correct tactic+luck was the only way they have a shot at winning this tournament.

They aren't trying to win the tournament. They know they aren't winning the tournament.

They are trying to win one game. Crunching was the only way they were going to accomplish this.

No idea why you fail to grasp this simple concept.

This Post:
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284770.98 in reply to 284770.88
Date: 2/21/2017 11:07:34 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
883883
Much better than understanding neither.

From: Oranjeman

This Post:
11
284770.100 in reply to 284770.95
Date: 2/22/2017 2:27:48 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
327327
Hey Lemon! Another guy that understands basketball.

And I'm sorry you have to pull in another sport in trying to be right about basketball.

And Joe, our coach has a 94% approval rate, yours has 63%... and rightly so, in both cases.
We had a pretty crap U21 team this season and despite some unlucky choices, he managed to reach the 2nd round of the knockout phase. We were never realistically going to win the tournament, so why save enth against the strongest, number 1 seed?
Your coach fails two seasons in a row to understand the oppenents. He appears cocky in his team, not doing the necessary analysing and reasoning ahead of a game. Last season missing out of the finals round because... once again... two TIEs. The one against Spain seems alright, with one loss you would have still progressed. But then the TIE against Suomi was bad decision making. They were going to crunch, no doubt about it because it was their last change to stay in the race against a stronger team. That your coach then went for TIE, 63% approval is still high. This season I have to admit it might have been a bit of bad luck, but once again he could have figured oit quite easily what the Holland coach was going to do and which of the Holland players were the core strength and could have eliminated those players. He didn't, so Italy lost, not necessarily because of the TIE, because like the Dutch's crunch that was the only right decision. But he could have done better preparing his team against the strengths and weaknesses of the Dutch team.

This Post:
00
284770.101 in reply to 284770.98
Date: 2/22/2017 5:54:04 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
Much better than understanding neither.
You sound saltier than I do! :)

This Post:
11
284770.102 in reply to 284770.100
Date: 2/22/2017 6:01:48 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
And Joe, our coach has a 94% approval rate, yours has 63%... and rightly so, in both cases.
Lol, man...look who's giving alternative facts.

Belgium U21: 76% 26+,8-
England U21: 81% 22+, 5-
Holland U21: 94% 16+ 1-

Where the hell do you read 63%????????

Knowing that the Belgium U21 is Athrunzala and he's probably ruffled some feathers among other Belgian users (no offense meant to AZ) I'd consider it pretty good only 8 people voted him down. He also made the quarterfinals without destroying his team's chances.

Also rings and silverware talk. I'm sure Jerunderbar is a nice guy and an expert manager, but he has had 0 success in a nation less than half the size England and Belgium. Do you understand winning?

I'd stop embarrassing myself trying to explain results and decisions you are clearly unable to grasp.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 2/22/2017 6:44:03 AM

This Post:
00
284770.103 in reply to 284770.97
Date: 2/22/2017 6:02:29 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
Ukraine did 2 seasons ago. Holland lost by 8 to Serbia, probably the second or third best team left (accounting for HCA) with 2 wrong GDP and bad Ent. The CT v TIE will not equalise so much difference in Ent+2x wrong GDP. What more proof do you need that at this level anyone really has a chance? They are the proof.

Of course settling for mediocrity severely hinders your chances as I explained before and that will increase the likelyhood you don't get anywhere. It'd be like me crunching GullyFoyle the reigning EBBL and cup champion in the league just to obtain a prestigious victory and disregarding the chances of making the playoffs. It's nonsense. Savvy?

This Post:
00
284770.104 in reply to 284770.92
Date: 2/22/2017 6:26:18 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
Anything else then that would have been a certain defeat. I think that all people in this thread agrees to that except you at this point.
You part of the 0% club now too? Should I remind you what you wrote at the beginning of this thread? If you don't think it's 0% then assign probabilities to all the rounds and show me that the higher probability of winning the Italy game combined with a lower probability of winning the remaining 4 is a superior strategy compared to a much lower probability of winning the Italy game and much higher of winning the rest.

You can't have it both ways Manon. You can't say anyone has a chance to win a game, then say trying to win the tournament is an invalid strategy because they had 0% chance of beating Italy. It's illogical, I'm sure you understand that.

CT is the only correct strategy if you don't look past R32, you have no ambition and you settle for mediocrity.

If they used less effort in the games against Poland and Belgium they would have let in more points and lost by a larger marginal, and would have won easier. The question is what would have given the most though as they only was ~20 points ahead of Belarus to grab the last playoff spot.
Poland was their second game. There is no justification whatsoever for losing on a Normal v TIE the second game. If they TIE that, the PD will be worse in that single game and better in every other game after that. Do the math. If they TIE that game they would have avoided Italy in the first round, it's actually fairly obvious. This is just a short-sighted way to manage a team, which is fine if you have no ambition, you think you're bad and will not get anywhere anyway and you put in place actions that will actually make that result more likely.

The manager of the Dutch U21 team may not have distributed their ent in the best way during the season, but he sure did the right thing to CT Italy.
I disagree. They could have beaten Serbia with more Ent, the CT ensured that their tournament was much less likely to progress further.

In Buzzerbeater you're not betting your own money. It makes no sense to be so risk adverse in designing the strategy, it makes no sense to settle for mediocrity at the U21 where the players change from one season to the next. It makes a lot more sense to go 100% or bust unless your chances are very very low since the start (i.e. if you're a micronation). The Serbia game showed Holland sold themselves very short and bad coaching put them in a position not to succeed.

I think we just have to agree to disagree. We can't possibly continue to rehash the same points.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 2/22/2017 6:56:14 AM

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