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I will also add here a proposal I may have floated originally when we were setting up the HGL.

As you might recall, I used to be involved (about 35+ seasons ago) in a large Australian PL competition called the Fishbowl. Like the HGL, it started off relatively humble with 16-20 teams and quickly began to grow as more and more teams heard about it and wanted to join.

As a result, we created an upper division and a lower division (the names of these escape me as I write this). The upper division comprised of the top 16 teams and the lower division comprised of the 16 lower teams. I don't recall how we defined which team went into the upper or lower division but I think it was based on salary.

We also had a component that required a team to win or finish in the final of the lower division (for example) to be able to 'promote' to the upper division where the 2 worst performing upper division teams relegated in much the same way we do in the league currently.
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These are just musings of course as you have floated the possibility of change and, as we can predict with some accuracy, change will be required at some point in the future if the HGL continues to expand.

I appreciate sharing your views, MrJ, so please don't get tone of my earlier posts in a wrong way. Being direct and condensed in communication sometimes could leave a wrong impression.

Again, with the goal of not starting a thorough discussion about this matter, I'll just add/repeat, that these "issues" if going into two different level divisions have been discussed in lengthy manner earlier. It does include several downsides, such as making a division among "better" and "worse" teams, which is way more pronounced compared to if we play on one, same level league (like now).

And it doesn't even make way more even leagues, as there´d still better and worse teams in each different level divisions (of which I was writing about in my reply on Homegrown Teams II-thread a tad earlier, if my memory serves me).

Also, a new team selection would be more complicated in terms of fairness, as at least personally I don't like the idea at all, that new teams would jump/walk into the highest division directly (if there would be two different level leagues), which means they would have to go through at least one season in lower level "Division 1".

This would in some cases cause seasons with perfect winning record, taking away promotion chances from other potential lower league level promotion candidates (or if two or more good teams would enter lower level league in one season, might immediately diminish promotion possibilities of other, otherwise promotion capable lower level league teams). Needless to say, this might cause motivational problems with lower level league managers (who would have been looking to promote), which would need to be tackled somehow to enable also other than newly added teams to promote.

Also, all stats/records, both team and player, (if/when made available) wouldn't be comparable, as they haven't been achieved against equal opposition (as all teams wouldn't face all teams during the season).

As MrJ noted, it's good to take a look at some possibilities beforehand, and have some discussion about them. But as has been said, this matter has also been discussed in length before, and I didn't check out those messages now to gather all my points into this one - I just wrote semi-intuitively, based on what I remember from my old writings.

This post wasn't written to start a lengthy conversation about this matter again right now (again, it takes time to delve into these kind of topics).

I would also like to cordially add, that while of course I have the intention to make HGL as inviting as possible, it's not necessarily good to do that "regardless of price".
While HGL is an open league, I think it's good to keep in mind that being selected to play in HGL is a priviledge, and not a right. :)

This post wasn't written to start a lengthy conversation about this matter again right now (again, it takes time to delve into these kind of topics).

I think we are all used to, by now, lengthy posts.

I will try to be brief(er), Wagner. :-)


1. I misread your original post and thought 2 differing level leagues might be something you were pondering. So, forget my suggestions regarding that, however, having 2 divisions of 'equal levels' in the future might still apply and some of what I said might still be valid. Either way, as you note, for now the number of teams doesn't dictate any major changes. It is still good to start considering such things.

2. From your unwillingness to have anyone else have any control over anything except for yourself is somewhat troubling to me. Yes, you are doing an excellent job in everything as I have often noted and praised you. However, it is very dangerous (in my opinion) to have one person controlling everything 100% with no intention of sharing the roles (power). I only mentioned the 'Deputy Commissioner' not because I am interested, (as I'm not), but as a possible solution to delegate the amount of work a larger league will require if our league continues to grow...which surely we would encourage?

You seem adamant that the HGL is yours alone now and that your decisions are final. Again, this concerns me. There was a time when a group of us were discussing and preparing to create this very league. Don't get me wrong, there are considerable benefits of having a single person in charge in the same way you are and again, I have praised your extensive and incredible work - as have others. However, there is a short step from a democratically elected leader (you originally), and a dictator. I am not saying you are the latter, but some of your actions (unwillingness once elected to be flexible with certain elements of this league) concern me.

I have supported you since the beginning (in my efforts, comments and constructive criticisms; adding value here and there; nominating you as the 'first' commissioner; ending the HGK and Utopian argument to placate you etc) and continue to support you providing you do not see the HGL as 'your' league but 'our' league in which you have invested so much of your time and effort.

I understand that you are significantly invested in the HGL surviving indefinitely...and seem to believe that it can only occur if you remain in control of it. However, if history and global politics has taught us nothing, a true (not artificial) democracy has greater success long-term.

With that said, Wagner, continue to do the amazing job you are doing, but please remember you were elected by us democratically. Please don't dismiss the possibility of others assisting you so easily. Even if no-one wants to do the role of a deputy commissioner, for example, doesn't mean such a role should be dismissed so easily and without considering the thoughts of the many other managers here who also make the HGL what it is.

3. While you might believe that the Pick Up (PU) tokens aren't much of an issue at present, I would suggest we consider them a bit more. For example, for those non-supporter teams, only 1 token per week is given. That's 14 for the season. At some point, the HGL managers will not all be able to use 15 or 16 to set games in an upcoming season. Perhaps there are others, like me, who are already experiencing this likelihood. Those large bank of PU tokens some of you have, will eventually be a factor and, like me and perhaps others, will be forced to only set a smaller number of games than there are teams in the league.

I mention all this as having a set size of a league, or division, might be sensible in the light of the amount of tokens that will or will not be available in future seasons.

As always, I hope you consider my comments here in the spirit of rigorous and constructive feedback/criticism as they are intended to develop