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lmao, you want to take credit away from Westbrook for his bigs giving up a rebound or two. Yet your giving credit to Harden for playing in a Mike D'antoni offense? GTFO!

Nah I'll stay right here. First off, what about D'Antoni's offense do you dislike? The fact that they give up decent percentage shots for 3 pointers? Please explain, because I want to know.

If 1 or 2 rebounds were the only reason why people think Westbrook shouldn't be MVP, I would probably pick him. He leads the league in uncontested rebounds at almost 8 per game. http://stats.nba.com/players/defensive-rebounding/#!?sort...

Not only do his bigs box out on free throws for him to get the board (should the FT shooter miss), there have been numerous instances where he doesn't even contest his man's shot. How does Alex Abrines have 234 total shot contests to Westbrook's 291, when Abrines hasn't even played half the amount if minutes Westbrook has played this season? Out of all the players in the league that average at least 30 minutes per game, he is only ahead of Rudy Gobert and Hassan Whiteside in 3PT shot contests. http://stats.nba.com/players/hustle/#!?sort=CONTESTED_SHO...

TLDR; 8 uncontested rebounds per game is higher than 2 and he's been lazier on defense. https://twitter.com/lakeshowyo/status/847921839179415552

Every single player on Westbrook's team is having a worse season than 2015-16.

And so that we're clear this is not chicken and egg, but a direct result of Westbrook chasing his personal accolades and stifling the rest of the team.

People are hating on Harden, but I refuse to give the MVP to a player on a team with the 10th best record in the league.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/10/2017 6:52:31 AM

8 uncontested rebounds per game is higher than 2 and he's been lazier on defense. (https://twitter.com/lakeshowyo/status/847921839179415552)
8 uncontested RPG, doesn't mean he gets 8 more than everyone else. Most rebounds are uncontested, or have you not watched the NBA lately? And since you only want look at analytics, how about he averaged a triple double, in 20 something less possessions a game and in less mpg, than the Big O. But yeah, that doesn't matter either.

But its clear in your bias, that playing in a faster more frenetic offense, wouldn't help Harden? And saying he gives more effort on defense, is laughable.

If you had to take 1 player to get a stop on defense, it wouldn't be Harden.

First off, I never said Westbrook gets 8 more uncontested rebounds than anyone else. I stated that he's averaged that many this season. Since I haven't watched the Rockets a whole bunch this season, I wanted to know what you were getting at when you talked about their offense. Second, I also never said that a faster offense wouldn't help Harden out.

Third, notice how I never said that Harden gives more effort on defense compared to Westbrook. In my first post, I was referring to previous years where he would take multiple plays off.

Any casual NBA fan would do better than to pick Harden out of all the players in the league to get a stop when it's needed most. However, Westbrook wouldn't be my first choice either. Avery Bradley or Tony Allen would probably get the nod from me.

Like I stated in my first post in this thread, I'm a fan of Westbrook. I like his aggressiveness, tenacity and his undeniable athleticism. Just because I criticize parts of his game doesn't mean I'm biased against him.

Well, I didn't vote because there is one option that is not proposed : BOTH.
For me both of them are aliens this season.
LeBron is the best, one of the most complete players in all NBA history, if not the most complete. But this season the other 2 are in state of grace ...
So both for MVP of the season, and Le Bron (or Kawhi) MVP of the finals

Geez...Game 1 of ROCKETS V THUNDER...

Harden was sublime...

If Westbrook doesn't win MVP this season, then he'll never get it. For me, he deserves it, because of the mark he has set. His selfishness doesn't matter to me.
But of course there are a lot of players in the conversation. To see a list of ten players, even added Porzingis, I'm wondering if somebody knows about the Greek Freak ...
He will probably win the MIP, but for me he is more important for his team (success) than Porzingis is for his Knicks. Even though the overall merch value of Porzingis might be higher because NY is a different market.

His selfishness doesn't matter to me.

It should matter to you and all those bright minds who voted for him. Ultimately if Westbrook doesn't get close to his RS numbers in the playoffs and he wins the MVP many people will look like a joke, especially if Harden walks all over the Thunder like in game one.

Never in history a guy on a team with the 10th best record has won the MVP and for good reason. Excellent production translates to wins. Stat padding usually doesn't. Westbrook is a stat padder and in the playoffs with more intense defensive pressure (which from a D'Antoni team should be limited) already produced one massive disappearing act shooting his team to a blowout in the first game.

The numbers difference between Harden and Westbrook and their difference against the RS numbers in this series will explain why it was not very smart to vote for a stat padder on a team that gave up winning, gave up the possibility of developing players and building a working team offense, so that he could get his personal record. If I was the owner of the franchise I'd have fired both Donovan and Presti mid season.

He will probably win the MIP, but for me he is more important for his team (success) than Porzingis is for his Knicks. Even though the overall merch value of Porzingis might be higher because NY is a different market.

Yes that's exactly the point. That idiot Stern did famously said that his ideal Finals would be LAL vs LAL.

NY and LA are the 2 biggest markets. Porzingis happens to be the future of one of those teams.



Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/18/2017 9:07:02 AM

Harden in Game 1 was sublime. He has my vote for MVP (not because of the game 1) but because in every rs game I watched him play I had that Jordan-like-feeling...I can sense he is capable of doing anything at any time and when he does it's beautiful to watch. He is no Jordan but he is only one of a few players who I watch and their is that unstated anticipation knowing they could go off. I think LJ, Curry etc Although Westbrook is an outstanding player I feel harden---despite his lack of defense abilities---should get the nod for MVP. That's my 2c worth.

It should matter to you and all those bright minds who voted for him.

Well, is there anything better than an extraordinary bright mind that tells one how he has to think about something?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know there are no written rules, that set boundary conditions which player is even eligible to be voted.
I can understand the other votes, but my criteria are at least slightly different. Westbrooks team is imho worse than Hardens and there are enough stats besides the TDs that speak for Westbrooks case. And he was clutch, especially in the final weeks.
But I can reassure you, that even I have a limit for bearable selfishness. He was near that line, but still no reason for me not ot vote for him.
For me, his team would have been much worse without him than any other team without their star player, but that's just me ...
Finally, since when you draw conclusions after just one game?
Yeah, game 1 was horrible, but there are at least three opportunities to bounce back. We will see, if and how Westbrook can adjust his game.

Yes that's exactly the point. That idiot Stern did famously said that his ideal Finals would be LAL vs LAL. NY and LA are the 2 biggest markets. Porzingis happens to be the future of one of those teams.

For Porzinigs, I hope so. But I'm still a bit sceptical. Will he be injury-prone? He missed 16 games this season and had some back issues, if I don't confuse that with another player. That is always a point when I start to listen attentively ...

For me, his team would have been much worse without him than any other team without their star player, but that's just me ...
Finally, since when you draw conclusions after just one game?

You misunderstand. Westbrook and his coach have made the Thunder miserable this season. Look at Adams, look at Oladipo. Every single player on that roster is having a bad year. They didn't care about getting ready for the playoffs or developing the right way of playing as a team and individually.

They let the stat chaser run wild and he got his record. Now they are in no position to compete because Adams is the dumbed down version of himself, Kanter hasn't learned anything, Roberson is still completely ineffective on one end and the rest cannot play help defense to save their lives (and that includes Westbrook).

They got schooled defensively by D'Antoni leading a Harden team...D'Antoni and Harden...let it sink.


Ultimately the problem I have with people voting Westbrook is that it was always evident that this kind of way of playing is not viable in a basketball game when it really matters and that his real stats while trying to win competitive games would not be even close to the ones his team earned him in the regular season. And while conceivably Harden will average 29-11 in the playoffs, Westbrook will not average 31-10-10 in normal conditions with his team trying to win a playoff series. It's that simple. And since he won like 47 games, he shouldn't win the MVP, just as MJ didn't win when he averaged 37 or when Kareem didn't get it in '73 despite being by far the best player in the league and much better than Cowens.

Finally, since when you draw conclusions after just one game?
Yeah, game 1 was horrible, but there are at least three opportunities to bounce back. We will see, if and how Westbrook can adjust his game.

My logic is: playoff Westbrook is the real Westbrook put in a normal team context. It's the same guy everyone knew was posting meaningless stats, but now desperate to win games. Problem is, because of his stat padding nobody else on that team can help him now, while Kawhi, LeBron and Harden have all put their teammates in a position to succeed. These 3 will only need to continue what they were doing.

I will also add that KD most definitely left because he had enough of this way of playing the game

Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/18/2017 11:55:06 AM