BuzzerBeater Forums

First off, I never said Westbrook gets 8 more uncontested rebounds than anyone else. I stated that he's averaged that many this season. Since I haven't watched the Rockets a whole bunch this season, I wanted to know what you were getting at when you talked about their offense. Second, I also never said that a faster offense wouldn't help Harden out.

Third, notice how I never said that Harden gives more effort on defense compared to Westbrook. In my first post, I was referring to previous years where he would take multiple plays off.

Any casual NBA fan would do better than to pick Harden out of all the players in the league to get a stop when it's needed most. However, Westbrook wouldn't be my first choice either. Avery Bradley or Tony Allen would probably get the nod from me.

Like I stated in my first post in this thread, I'm a fan of Westbrook. I like his aggressiveness, tenacity and his undeniable athleticism. Just because I criticize parts of his game doesn't mean I'm biased against him.

Well, I didn't vote because there is one option that is not proposed : BOTH.
For me both of them are aliens this season.
LeBron is the best, one of the most complete players in all NBA history, if not the most complete. But this season the other 2 are in state of grace ...
So both for MVP of the season, and Le Bron (or Kawhi) MVP of the finals

Geez...Game 1 of ROCKETS V THUNDER...

Harden was sublime...

If Westbrook doesn't win MVP this season, then he'll never get it. For me, he deserves it, because of the mark he has set. His selfishness doesn't matter to me.
But of course there are a lot of players in the conversation. To see a list of ten players, even added Porzingis, I'm wondering if somebody knows about the Greek Freak ...
He will probably win the MIP, but for me he is more important for his team (success) than Porzingis is for his Knicks. Even though the overall merch value of Porzingis might be higher because NY is a different market.

His selfishness doesn't matter to me.

It should matter to you and all those bright minds who voted for him. Ultimately if Westbrook doesn't get close to his RS numbers in the playoffs and he wins the MVP many people will look like a joke, especially if Harden walks all over the Thunder like in game one.

Never in history a guy on a team with the 10th best record has won the MVP and for good reason. Excellent production translates to wins. Stat padding usually doesn't. Westbrook is a stat padder and in the playoffs with more intense defensive pressure (which from a D'Antoni team should be limited) already produced one massive disappearing act shooting his team to a blowout in the first game.

The numbers difference between Harden and Westbrook and their difference against the RS numbers in this series will explain why it was not very smart to vote for a stat padder on a team that gave up winning, gave up the possibility of developing players and building a working team offense, so that he could get his personal record. If I was the owner of the franchise I'd have fired both Donovan and Presti mid season.

He will probably win the MIP, but for me he is more important for his team (success) than Porzingis is for his Knicks. Even though the overall merch value of Porzingis might be higher because NY is a different market.

Yes that's exactly the point. That idiot Stern did famously said that his ideal Finals would be LAL vs LAL.

NY and LA are the 2 biggest markets. Porzingis happens to be the future of one of those teams.



Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/18/2017 9:07:02 AM

Harden in Game 1 was sublime. He has my vote for MVP (not because of the game 1) but because in every rs game I watched him play I had that Jordan-like-feeling...I can sense he is capable of doing anything at any time and when he does it's beautiful to watch. He is no Jordan but he is only one of a few players who I watch and their is that unstated anticipation knowing they could go off. I think LJ, Curry etc Although Westbrook is an outstanding player I feel harden---despite his lack of defense abilities---should get the nod for MVP. That's my 2c worth.

It should matter to you and all those bright minds who voted for him.

Well, is there anything better than an extraordinary bright mind that tells one how he has to think about something?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know there are no written rules, that set boundary conditions which player is even eligible to be voted.
I can understand the other votes, but my criteria are at least slightly different. Westbrooks team is imho worse than Hardens and there are enough stats besides the TDs that speak for Westbrooks case. And he was clutch, especially in the final weeks.
But I can reassure you, that even I have a limit for bearable selfishness. He was near that line, but still no reason for me not ot vote for him.
For me, his team would have been much worse without him than any other team without their star player, but that's just me ...
Finally, since when you draw conclusions after just one game?
Yeah, game 1 was horrible, but there are at least three opportunities to bounce back. We will see, if and how Westbrook can adjust his game.

Yes that's exactly the point. That idiot Stern did famously said that his ideal Finals would be LAL vs LAL. NY and LA are the 2 biggest markets. Porzingis happens to be the future of one of those teams.

For Porzinigs, I hope so. But I'm still a bit sceptical. Will he be injury-prone? He missed 16 games this season and had some back issues, if I don't confuse that with another player. That is always a point when I start to listen attentively ...

For me, his team would have been much worse without him than any other team without their star player, but that's just me ...
Finally, since when you draw conclusions after just one game?

You misunderstand. Westbrook and his coach have made the Thunder miserable this season. Look at Adams, look at Oladipo. Every single player on that roster is having a bad year. They didn't care about getting ready for the playoffs or developing the right way of playing as a team and individually.

They let the stat chaser run wild and he got his record. Now they are in no position to compete because Adams is the dumbed down version of himself, Kanter hasn't learned anything, Roberson is still completely ineffective on one end and the rest cannot play help defense to save their lives (and that includes Westbrook).

They got schooled defensively by D'Antoni leading a Harden team...D'Antoni and Harden...let it sink.


Ultimately the problem I have with people voting Westbrook is that it was always evident that this kind of way of playing is not viable in a basketball game when it really matters and that his real stats while trying to win competitive games would not be even close to the ones his team earned him in the regular season. And while conceivably Harden will average 29-11 in the playoffs, Westbrook will not average 31-10-10 in normal conditions with his team trying to win a playoff series. It's that simple. And since he won like 47 games, he shouldn't win the MVP, just as MJ didn't win when he averaged 37 or when Kareem didn't get it in '73 despite being by far the best player in the league and much better than Cowens.

Finally, since when you draw conclusions after just one game?
Yeah, game 1 was horrible, but there are at least three opportunities to bounce back. We will see, if and how Westbrook can adjust his game.

My logic is: playoff Westbrook is the real Westbrook put in a normal team context. It's the same guy everyone knew was posting meaningless stats, but now desperate to win games. Problem is, because of his stat padding nobody else on that team can help him now, while Kawhi, LeBron and Harden have all put their teammates in a position to succeed. These 3 will only need to continue what they were doing.

I will also add that KD most definitely left because he had enough of this way of playing the game

Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/18/2017 11:55:06 AM

Westbrook is MVP...

Doesnt matter if he wont win playoffs, doesnt matter if he lose vs Harden. Guy set new record and averaged tripple double. Not to mention its individual reward. Best team will receive rings anyway.

Yeah, I've got it. You know it all. Next time when I misunderstand the mysterious life of basketball, I will definitely get back to you to help me out -.-
Or maybe you are just another Westbrook hater?
He is my MVP and lucky you, I don't have a vote.
So calm down and don't make me believe, he is one of the worst players a team can get.
I truly understood why KD left. It was just a matter of time. But don't tell, OKC would have won more games without Westbrook or the players would have been that much better by themselves. Westbrook wasn't on the floor 48mins/game and they were just terrible without him. But I guess, even that was Westbrooks fault. It's always easy to hide behind another guy, stepping up when you have the chance not so much ...
I can wait to see what happens and I can definitely live with every of the mentioned players, no matter if LBJ, Harden or Kawhi gets the award.

Westbrook wasn't on the floor 48mins/game and they were just terrible without him. But I guess, even that was Westbrooks fault.

a) Westbrook has no NBA level backup. Fact, unless somehow someone proves that Christon would earn money anywhere else in the NBA, including Brooklyn.
b) the team has been built badly by Presti in the offseason and Donovan is a bad coach so he did nothing to address an awful situation, he just allowed Westbrook to go ballistic. When Westbrook sits they have no PG on the floor, do you expect any team to play better with no playmaker or ballhandler? It's like you remove Beverley as a backup PG to Harden and put a below-average D-Leaguer in his place...seriously.
c) All his team mates have had a worse year than 2015-16, see any stat you like. Fact.
d) He won fewer games than other 9 teams, which included other MVP candidates. In random order Harden, Kawhi, LeBron, Curry, KD, Thomas, Chris Paul. All of them play the right way putting the team first. That is another fact.

So in short yes it was Westbrook's fault and also Donovan's and Presti's. Nobody else bears responsibility for the above. Not Adams who has been castrated all year and was the 4th best big on the floor when he would have wiped the floor with Capela a year ago. Not Oladipo who's not been developed properly. Not Sabonis who has been thrown out there and given shots every game and now is nowhere to be seen (thanks to Donovan).

stepping up when you have the chance not so much ...

Stepping up when being inefficient is fairly easy. Ask Kobe when he put up 35. As I said elsewhere, Westbrook MVP will pave the way for Devin Booker, another inefficient volume shooter, to take 35 shots per game so he can average 40 points, 'cause, you know, only Wilt did it, only one man before did it ever, it hasn't been done in 55 years and all that rubbish they said about a meaningless record owned by one of the biggest losers in the history of the association (Robertson) a guy who had to go to Kareem as a distant second banana in order to win a ring.

I can wait to see what happens and I can definitely live with every of the mentioned players, no matter if LBJ, Harden or Kawhi gets the award.

Westbrook will win the MVP and those who voted for him hopefully will be publicly shamed for being conned by him and Donovan.

I know more than one OKC supporter who actively hopes his team gets swept by the Rockets, so their front office will have an easy excuse to fire Donovan. That's how painful 2017 Thunder basketball is to watch for them. The Westbrook's show made it barely bearable, but ultimately fans want to win, not to see a circus. There's the Harlem Globetrotters for that. Crippling 14/15 of your team so that 1/15 can show off is not a good recipe to win.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/18/2017 4:53:42 PM